My biggest issue with Dante's narrative is his contradiction between his monotheistic beliefs and his use of pagan characters and themes. On one hand, Dante is a devote Christian who believes in monotheism; that there is a single God. This, and the acceptance of Christ, are key to salvation and making it into heaven. However, Dante cherry picks various characters and themes out of Greek mythology and incorporates it into his Christian version of the underworld. The major problem with this is that as a monotheist, if you're going to use pagan characters and themes, you are validating polytheism, or the existence of the pantheon of Gods and Goddesses they came from. These characters and themes that Dante takes from Greek mythology are not mutually exclusive with the Greek pantheon, but to the contrary are dependent on the Greek pantheon as it is those pagan Gods and Goddesses who had created and facilitated those characters and themes. One glaring example of this contradiction of theological paradigms is the use of the Cerberus as the guardian of the third circle of hell, the circle of gluttony. The Cerberus is the guard dog of the ruler of the underworld in Greek mythology Hades. Cerberus' father is the dragon Typhon, who was created by the Greek goddess Gaia. Therefore, in this instance with the use of the Cerberus in Dante's Inferno, he is validating the existence of a Greek Goddess by incorporating one of her descendants in the narrative, which contradicts the Christian principle of monotheism. Another great example of this contradiction is the use of Medusa in the ring of heretics (ring 6). Medusa is the daughter of the Greek Goddess Ceto and the God Phorcys. Once again Dante contradicts the Christian belief of monotheism by validating the existence of a Greek God and Goddess by using Medusa. There are many other examples of Dante cherry picking pagan characters and themes from the Greek mythos for his story, such as: Plutus, the River of Styx, and Charon to name a few. You cannot take these characters and themes out of the context of the polytheistic Greek mythos. For example, that is the equivalent of someone saying that the first man, Adam, is the gate keeper to the 9th ring of hell, but the universe is ruled by the Greek pantheon of Gods, and to get into Elysium, or heaven, you have to accept that the universe is ruled by a polytheistic hierarchy. It just doesn't work or make any sense; Adam exists only in the context of being the first human made by a single, universal God, while characters from the Greek mythos only exist under many Gods. You cannot have both without this major contradiction, and frankly, this is one of the major flubs of Dante's Inferno.
I found Dante’s Inferno to be very interesting and very creatively written. I consider Dante to have quite the imagination and in some ways, a very disturbed soul. I use the term disturbed because of how graphic some of the punishments are. Although while reading it, I found myself saying “ew”, or “ughh”, I kept wanting to read on and find out what punishment would happen next. It’s such a crazy idea, when you think about it, how Dante came up with all these sins and the punishments for them. Like the idea of those who were swept away by love in life, were tortured in that exact manor, in death. They were literally swept away by strong, harsh winds for eternity. I also liked how Dante brought in such mystical characters, such as gods like Dido and Helena, and also the three headed dog like in the tail of Hercules. There were parts that confused me, however, such as why Dido was placed in Circle Two which was Lust, and not Circle Seven, which was Violence, which Dido belonged because although she was consumed by love. I really just wish I could ask Dante questions like this and I feel as though he would be quite an intimidating person just because of his ideas in The Divine Comedy, but I’m sure it would be unreal to speak to him and ask him what he was thinking when he wrote such a beautifully constructed book. I also am curious to know what the Pope thought of Dante’s book. I wonder if this made the Pope dislike Dante even more, but in this way, more because he was envious of Dante’s fortune and brilliant ideas. I’m sure there were plenty of people who despised Dante just because they were so jealous when The Divine Comedy was published. He has a great mind and is such a brilliant and intelligent person. I admire how creative he thinks, as well.
What is Limbo? And why is it such a big deal? Limbo is the place where virtuous pagans end up. Limbo is the immediate destination of those souls who, through no personal fault, are not admitted to heaven. Because this fate is not due to their personal moral failings, they are also not damned to hell. People like Homer, Horace, Aeneas, and Averroes, are all here solely because they do not believe in Jesus. It is outside the entrance of Hell, but across the river Acheron. In comparison to the rest of Hell, it is a walk in the park. There is no suffering, no punishment. There is the benefit of companionship, and the souls here are able to exercise reason. But the down fall, is that they’ll never get to paradise. They are able to see the light of heaven, but they have no hope at all of getting there, which in itself is kind of a punishment. It puzzles me why such great men, who did much for their country and the world, would be in limbo? It’s basically only because they were born before Jesus came to save the world. But, he did so that everyone could go to heaven. I’m not a fan of the idea that they are damned because they were born in the wring century. What does Dante represent? Dante is ‘everyman’ and represents humans in general with all our flaws. When Dante goes through, he feel compassion for some, pity for others, but by the end, he comes to grip that these people deserve to be damned. In the beginning he is very scared, and doesn’t know what to do, he runs away, looking for safety. He has emotions that are very prominent, despite the advisement against them from Virgil. Despite the fact that his emotions seem to be humorously proportioned, fainting out of pity, and a few chapter later, wishing a man to be damned more, they are perceived as very human reactions. I think he does this to help tell the reader what to feel. As he furthers his decent into Hell, it seems like he leaves his humanness behind, and becomes heartless towards those suffering. What does Beatrice represent? In Dante’s eyes, she is perfect in every sense of the word. She was sinless, had moral perfection and was a sincere Christian. She is literally the perfect person. So it is only natural that she represents heavens Grace, and its love for the pilgrim. I also think that she is an allegory for spiritual love, showing that Dante’s love for her was a pure as his love for God. Every time she is mentioned, it is with an air of reverence and respect.
Robert Lawton Augustine Book 1 When writing any religious text that may be reviewed or potentially studied the writer must be conscious of the rules of the tradition. There are certain expectations when writing as a holy man, especially when your words may be considered as official, even gospel. This is why it is so curious that St. Augustine so obviously deviates from expectations and tradition right at the beginning of his confessions. It is hard to read the initial chapter and see unwavering faith, and yet it is also difficult to turn away from his words. Augustine is adept at generating interest, at positing the binary of unyielding faith and still open questioning from his very opening. The text opens, basically, with a series of questions. Augustine questioning the absolute for answers that he know are not coming. How can there be a separation between man and God, if God is in all things? Augustine says “because nothing which exists could exist without Thee, doth therefore whatever exists contain Thee?” It seems on a cursory examination that Augustine is questioning the existence of God the Creator. More accurately, it seems he is questioning the practices of faith at the time. As the church has created the separation of holy man and worshipper as King and subject they have also developed the idea of the trinity. The Church encourages going to service to be in the house of the Lord. The church asks it’s worshipper to partake in the blood and flesh of Christ, to take the savior in. Augustine questions this separation, this lowering of Mans ability to already be partly divine when he asks “why do I seek that Thou shouldest enter into me, who were not, wert Thou not in me?” Augustine goes on to question being in debt to a God, who is above debt, of praising a God who is above the mortal need for praise. Augustine very succinctly puts into reference his doubts of his own, and the church’s practices.
THE PROGRESS OF MAN First he appeared in the realm inanimate; Thence came into the world of plants and lived The plant-life many a year, nor called to mind What he had been; then took the onward way To animal existence, and once more Remembers naught of what life vegetive, Save when he feels himself moved with desire Towards it in the season of sweet flowers, As babes that seek the breast and know not why. Again the wise Creator whom thou knowest Uplifted him from animality To Man's estate; and so from realm to realm Advancing, he became intelligent, Cunning and keen of wit, as he is now. No memory of his past abides with him, And from his present soul he shall be changes. Though he is fallen asleep, God will not leave him In this forgetfulness. Awakened, he Will laugh to think what troublous dreams he had. And wonder how his happy state of being He could forget, and not perceive that all Those pains and sorrows were the effect of sleep And guile and vain illusion. So this world Seems lasting, though 'tis but the sleepers' dream; Who, when the appointed Day shall dawn, escapes From dark imaginings that haunted him, And turns with laughter on his phantom griefs When he beholds his everlasting home.
I found this poem to be particularly interesting in the context of our course. It provides an alternate view of the early days of man, and the potential fall from grace. The opening lines are in reference to man, not God as is evidenced by the lack of capitalization of He. Also he is coming into the world inanimate (as clay), not being beyond or creating the world. The initial narrative is of Man lost in a world he does not know. This is certainly at odds with western takes on the Garden, where Adam was initially the master of the world and the animals. In this poem Rumi sees God slowly giving man knowledge, like slowly removing a veil “Again the wise Creator whom thou knowest/Uplifted him from animality” (10-11). This implies that there were multiple steps in which God came to man and provided guidance. It also denotes a greater sense of time passing within the first days, and not an immediate fall as implied by the Bible. God has stayed with man, and guided him, not abandoning him at the acquisition of forbidden knowledge: “so from realm to realm/Advancing, he became intelligent” (12-13). This too is at odds with traditional tales of man losing Gods favor. In this poem God is above the petty jealousy and temper tantrums of the old testament. God is ever present in man, who may look at the world just as a dream. The true reality is absolute, and man will one day awaken to discover it: Who, when the appointed Day shall dawn, escapes/From dark imaginings that haunted him, /And turns with laughter on his phantom griefs/When he beholds his everlasting home.” (27-30) This is in some ways a Platonic view, much in the same vein of the Sun in the allegory of the cave. Eventually the awakened will realize where all knowledge comes from, and that what we knew as reality was in fact just shadows on the wall. Rumi though never separates, at least in this poem, classes of people who may or may not be able to attain enlightenment. There is no separation of holy man versus common man, or even man and woman. We have a commonality stated in this poem that leads us all on the same path, to the same end.
The pagan contradiction in Dante's narrative
ReplyDeleteMy biggest issue with Dante's narrative is his contradiction between his monotheistic beliefs and his use of pagan characters and themes. On one hand, Dante is a devote Christian who believes in monotheism; that there is a single God. This, and the acceptance of Christ, are key to salvation and making it into heaven. However, Dante cherry picks various characters and themes out of Greek mythology and incorporates it into his Christian version of the underworld. The major problem with this is that as a monotheist, if you're going to use pagan characters and themes, you are validating polytheism, or the existence of the pantheon of Gods and Goddesses they came from. These characters and themes that Dante takes from Greek mythology are not mutually exclusive with the Greek pantheon, but to the contrary are dependent on the Greek pantheon as it is those pagan Gods and Goddesses who had created and facilitated those characters and themes. One glaring example of this contradiction of theological paradigms is the use of the Cerberus as the guardian of the third circle of hell, the circle of gluttony. The Cerberus is the guard dog of the ruler of the underworld in Greek mythology Hades. Cerberus' father is the dragon Typhon, who was created by the Greek goddess Gaia. Therefore, in this instance with the use of the Cerberus in Dante's Inferno, he is validating the existence of a Greek Goddess by incorporating one of her descendants in the narrative, which contradicts the Christian principle of monotheism. Another great example of this contradiction is the use of Medusa in the ring of heretics (ring 6). Medusa is the daughter of the Greek Goddess Ceto and the God Phorcys. Once again Dante contradicts the Christian belief of monotheism by validating the existence of a Greek God and Goddess by using Medusa. There are many other examples of Dante cherry picking pagan characters and themes from the Greek mythos for his story, such as: Plutus, the River of Styx, and Charon to name a few. You cannot take these characters and themes out of the context of the polytheistic Greek mythos. For example, that is the equivalent of someone saying that the first man, Adam, is the gate keeper to the 9th ring of hell, but the universe is ruled by the Greek pantheon of Gods, and to get into Elysium, or heaven, you have to accept that the universe is ruled by a polytheistic hierarchy. It just doesn't work or make any sense; Adam exists only in the context of being the first human made by a single, universal God, while characters from the Greek mythos only exist under many Gods. You cannot have both without this major contradiction, and frankly, this is one of the major flubs of Dante's Inferno.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteKelly Gilbert
ReplyDeleteHUMN 220
Professor B. Akmen
4/23/13
Dante’s Inferno
I found Dante’s Inferno to be very interesting and very creatively written. I consider Dante to have quite the imagination and in some ways, a very disturbed soul. I use the term disturbed because of how graphic some of the punishments are. Although while reading it, I found myself saying “ew”, or “ughh”, I kept wanting to read on and find out what punishment would happen next. It’s such a crazy idea, when you think about it, how Dante came up with all these sins and the punishments for them. Like the idea of those who were swept away by love in life, were tortured in that exact manor, in death. They were literally swept away by strong, harsh winds for eternity. I also liked how Dante brought in such mystical characters, such as gods like Dido and Helena, and also the three headed dog like in the tail of Hercules. There were parts that confused me, however, such as why Dido was placed in Circle Two which was Lust, and not Circle Seven, which was Violence, which Dido belonged because although she was consumed by love. I really just wish I could ask Dante questions like this and I feel as though he would be quite an intimidating person just because of his ideas in The Divine Comedy, but I’m sure it would be unreal to speak to him and ask him what he was thinking when he wrote such a beautifully constructed book. I also am curious to know what the Pope thought of Dante’s book. I wonder if this made the Pope dislike Dante even more, but in this way, more because he was envious of Dante’s fortune and brilliant ideas. I’m sure there were plenty of people who despised Dante just because they were so jealous when The Divine Comedy was published. He has a great mind and is such a brilliant and intelligent person. I admire how creative he thinks, as well.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhat is Limbo? And why is it such a big deal?
ReplyDeleteLimbo is the place where virtuous pagans end up. Limbo is the immediate destination of those souls who, through no personal fault, are not admitted to heaven. Because this fate is not due to their personal moral failings, they are also not damned to hell. People like Homer, Horace, Aeneas, and Averroes, are all here solely because they do not believe in Jesus. It is outside the entrance of Hell, but across the river Acheron. In comparison to the rest of Hell, it is a walk in the park. There is no suffering, no punishment. There is the benefit of companionship, and the souls here are able to exercise reason. But the down fall, is that they’ll never get to paradise. They are able to see the light of heaven, but they have no hope at all of getting there, which in itself is kind of a punishment. It puzzles me why such great men, who did much for their country and the world, would be in limbo? It’s basically only because they were born before Jesus came to save the world. But, he did so that everyone could go to heaven. I’m not a fan of the idea that they are damned because they were born in the wring century.
What does Dante represent?
Dante is ‘everyman’ and represents humans in general with all our flaws. When Dante goes through, he feel compassion for some, pity for others, but by the end, he comes to grip that these people deserve to be damned. In the beginning he is very scared, and doesn’t know what to do, he runs away, looking for safety. He has emotions that are very prominent, despite the advisement against them from Virgil. Despite the fact that his emotions seem to be humorously proportioned, fainting out of pity, and a few chapter later, wishing a man to be damned more, they are perceived as very human reactions. I think he does this to help tell the reader what to feel. As he furthers his decent into Hell, it seems like he leaves his humanness behind, and becomes heartless towards those suffering.
What does Beatrice represent?
In Dante’s eyes, she is perfect in every sense of the word. She was sinless, had moral perfection and was a sincere Christian. She is literally the perfect person. So it is only natural that she represents heavens Grace, and its love for the pilgrim. I also think that she is an allegory for spiritual love, showing that Dante’s love for her was a pure as his love for God. Every time she is mentioned, it is with an air of reverence and respect.
Robert Lawton
ReplyDeleteAugustine Book 1
When writing any religious text that may be reviewed or potentially studied the writer must be conscious of the rules of the tradition. There are certain expectations when writing as a holy man, especially when your words may be considered as official, even gospel. This is why it is so curious that St. Augustine so obviously deviates from expectations and tradition right at the beginning of his confessions. It is hard to read the initial chapter and see unwavering faith, and yet it is also difficult to turn away from his words. Augustine is adept at generating interest, at positing the binary of unyielding faith and still open questioning from his very opening.
The text opens, basically, with a series of questions. Augustine questioning the absolute for answers that he know are not coming. How can there be a separation between man and God, if God is in all things? Augustine says “because nothing which exists could exist without Thee, doth therefore whatever exists contain Thee?” It seems on a cursory examination that Augustine is questioning the existence of God the Creator. More accurately, it seems he is questioning the practices of faith at the time. As the church has created the separation of holy man and worshipper as King and subject they have also developed the idea of the trinity. The Church encourages going to service to be in the house of the Lord. The church asks it’s worshipper to partake in the blood and flesh of Christ, to take the savior in. Augustine questions this separation, this lowering of Mans ability to already be partly divine when he asks “why do I seek that Thou shouldest enter into me, who were not, wert Thou not in me?” Augustine goes on to question being in debt to a God, who is above debt, of praising a God who is above the mortal need for praise. Augustine very succinctly puts into reference his doubts of his own, and the church’s practices.
THE PROGRESS OF MAN
ReplyDeleteFirst he appeared in the realm inanimate;
Thence came into the world of plants and lived
The plant-life many a year, nor called to mind
What he had been; then took the onward way
To animal existence, and once more
Remembers naught of what life vegetive,
Save when he feels himself moved with desire
Towards it in the season of sweet flowers,
As babes that seek the breast and know not why.
Again the wise Creator whom thou knowest
Uplifted him from animality
To Man's estate; and so from realm to realm
Advancing, he became intelligent,
Cunning and keen of wit, as he is now.
No memory of his past abides with him,
And from his present soul he shall be changes.
Though he is fallen asleep, God will not leave him
In this forgetfulness. Awakened, he
Will laugh to think what troublous dreams he had.
And wonder how his happy state of being
He could forget, and not perceive that all
Those pains and sorrows were the effect of sleep
And guile and vain illusion. So this world
Seems lasting, though 'tis but the sleepers' dream;
Who, when the appointed Day shall dawn, escapes
From dark imaginings that haunted him,
And turns with laughter on his phantom griefs
When he beholds his everlasting home.
I found this poem to be particularly interesting in the context of our course. It provides an alternate view of the early days of man, and the potential fall from grace. The opening lines are in reference to man, not God as is evidenced by the lack of capitalization of He. Also he is coming into the world inanimate (as clay), not being beyond or creating the world. The initial narrative is of Man lost in a world he does not know. This is certainly at odds with western takes on the Garden, where Adam was initially the master of the world and the animals. In this poem Rumi sees God slowly giving man knowledge, like slowly removing a veil “Again the wise Creator whom thou knowest/Uplifted him from animality” (10-11). This implies that there were multiple steps in which God came to man and provided guidance. It also denotes a greater sense of time passing within the first days, and not an immediate fall as implied by the Bible.
God has stayed with man, and guided him, not abandoning him at the acquisition of forbidden knowledge: “so from realm to realm/Advancing, he became intelligent” (12-13). This too is at odds with traditional tales of man losing Gods favor. In this poem God is above the petty jealousy and temper tantrums of the old testament. God is ever present in man, who may look at the world just as a dream. The true reality is absolute, and man will one day awaken to discover it: Who, when the appointed Day shall dawn, escapes/From dark imaginings that haunted him, /And turns with laughter on his phantom griefs/When he beholds his everlasting home.” (27-30) This is in some ways a Platonic view, much in the same vein of the Sun in the allegory of the cave. Eventually the awakened will realize where all knowledge comes from, and that what we knew as reality was in fact just shadows on the wall. Rumi though never separates, at least in this poem, classes of people who may or may not be able to attain enlightenment. There is no separation of holy man versus common man, or even man and woman. We have a commonality stated in this poem that leads us all on the same path, to the same end.