Reading the Old Testament one week and the Qu'ran the next week helps to compare the two with it fresh in your mind. They both tell the same stories (Adam and Eve, Noah's Arc, The Tower of Babel, etc.) but each has some differences in it that makes it fun to compare. One thing that stood out to me the most when reading is the image of Satan in the story of Adam and Eve. In the Old Testament, satan is never named or given a story. People argue that Satan is represented in the serpent that tricks Eve in to eating off the tree of knowledge, but it is never actually proven. The Qu'ran refers to the character in that story as Satan, who is made of fire and is a higher power than humans. Satan has a reason to want to deceive Adam and Eve because he feels that he should not have to bow down to Adam, who he feels is lesser than him (with Satan being made of fire and Adam of clay). This whole back round of Satan in the Qu'ran adds to the reader's perception. It helps the reader more understand why Satan (or just the antagonist) does what he does. In the Old Testament, there is no real reason, no explanation, it just happens. This makes the reader confused and left to make his or her own personal assumptions.
When reading "The Table Spread" section of the Qu'ran I felt a little on edge. Some of the writing made me feel a little uncomfortable with the idea of how these writings can be misinterpreted. Lines such as, "From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so We stirred up enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. (5:14)", are the kind of writing that leaves a bad message. From what I got, the Qu'ran is generally promoting people to do good and not to do bad. The idea to fear Allah and that he punishes those who promote bad should lead people in the right direction. But lines such as (5:14) can easily be misinterpreted by some people. It promotes hatred and diversification between two different religious groups, which is something that is not generally good. I feel that some people could read this the wrong way, and feel the need to do harm to Christians because they do not follow what they do. (5:14) is one line of others that does not give off the best message to people and it left me feeling a bit uncomfortable.
It is true that the differences between the stories in Genesis and the Qur'an are informative and surprising considering that these are supposed to be the same tale told by two different sources. This could give insight into the purposes of the texts and what the authors were thinking. It also raises the question of who wrote these stories, if both of these were accepted as the word of the Lord there would not be any inaccuracies or inconsistencies in the two stories. So what the critical reader would examine these texts as would be the stories of a group of people designed to give moral guidance and support for believers. It would seem that this is the real difference between the two texts both were written about a monotheistic god which was originally attributed to Abraham, but by different authors from different cultures. The second part about the way Qur'an refers to other followers of Abrahamic religions is often very troubling, especially when Jews and Christians are at times portrayed as evil or people who do not worship Allah correctly. Although there are other texts that portray Jews and Christians as "People of the Book" who share not only a common God but also common prophets and scriptures. It seems that the Qur'an portrays this relationship between Muslims and other religions both positive and negative.
I completely agree with what you said about the ideas from The Qur'an being misleading and hard to follow. I also feel that lines such as those can be misinterpreted by others reading it. I don't like how the ideas are almost conflicting with being good and bad. It's too confusing, do they want their people to be good people with good views and actions or bad people who also do good things. I find it very contradictory. I also agree that promotion of evil is never a good thing, even if it's involved with getting revenge with the enemy. This reading also made me a little bit uncomfortable to read, as well. I liked your closing sentence very much. It was very summarizing of the reading.
As another new experience for me, while reading the Qu'ran I felt as if I would be able objectively read it without making judgement. I have to say however, I find the Qur'an much more intimidating in writing style than the Bible. While the Bible seems to consists of narratives that compose the supposed history of the time, the Qur'an seems to be almost written as a self-help book with the occasional anecdote. The Qur'an is very forward in saying that one should lead a life with the purposes of doing good deeds and should devote their lives to living a life that God would approve of. It is also very sure to let one know that if they stray off the path they can be forgiven but if they lose faith or did not have it at all, God knows and will punish them with eternal damnation. The writing style, I feel, makes the Qur'an more intimidating due to it using the word you which is supposed to refer to the prophet, but one can't help but get caught up and feel as if it is directed at the audience. It's a scary thought while reading lines such as "be mindful of God, for His punishment is severe" (The Feast 5:2). In both the Bible and the Qur'an the idea is obvious that one should fear God, but this point is certainly driven home many times throughout the passages of the Qur'an. It is confusing sometimes to figure out if the message in the Qur'an is to be a friend to people of other faith or that they are mischief makers. On one hand, "you who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians as allies: they are allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them..." (5:51), and on the other hand, "for those [Muslim]believers, the Jews, the Sabians, and the Christians--those who believe in God and the Last Day and do good deeds--there is no fear: they will not grieve" (5:69).
It is obviously true that the Qu'ran, when compared to the Bible, is more intimidating. The writing style is a lot different, and the approach towards reading both the Qu'ran and the Bible is very different. It is difficult to read the Qu'ran without a certain judgement, especially after 9/11 and other events like that, but you must try to read it in light. I too, got a bit uncomfortable and intimidated while reading the lines you quoted and others similar to that. The idea that everyone should fear god and that his punishment is severe made me extremely uncomfortable. I feel that a God, as a higher power, should be pure good and not something to fear, but something to look up to and follow. It is hard to read statements like that and take it in a positive way. The Qu'ran also has many condescending lines, like the last two lines you quoted (5:51 and 5:69), which makes it even more difficult to interpret. What is needed to be done is to just read it and try hard to receive the positive message. The whole message of the Qu'ran is really to promote good among its followers. If they are in fear of God's wrath while promoting good, then I guess that is the way it must be. You must try hard to look past all that bothers you and try to take in the message as a whole, which promotes good among its followers.
I agree with you in your statements about Satan. Satan seems to be the villain in the three Abrahamic religions. He causes many issues for humans because he believes they are not superior. I believe there is significance in the Qu'ran stating that Satan is made of fire and humans from clay because you can use fire to heat clay and form things from it. Much like how Satan influences people into doing things. Allah warns mankind of Satan’s intentions but Satan seems to always be able to influence people. This brings up the question whether Satan is right about mankind being inferior. I believe that Satan ultimately represents man’s temptation. It’s a lot easier to ask for forgiveness for any act when you can claim a malevolent supernatural being was influencing you. I also agree with you that the bible does not reference Satan in it, and that people just assume that the snake is the Satan because he is the tempter in the story.
When I sat down to do the initial reading in the Qur’an, I too thought I would be able to read with an open mind. Unfortunately, as you experienced, I was not able to do so. However, my experience was quite different from yours. Content aside, while you found the writing style intimidating I found it to be simple and concise. I can understand how it can come off as intimidating in sort of a “this doesn’t mess around/mix words” kind of way, but I interpreted it as more of instructions to live a “proper” life. I took note of the use of “you” as well, and it took me through the first two Surahs to finally get comfortable with this terminology. By the end, however, I took it to give a personal message even if it is referring to the Prophet. This was just one of the issues that contributed to my difficulties in reading this text objectively.
How is God portrayed in the Qur’an? How is it different from in the Bible? In the Qur’an, Allah is portrayed as the One and only God. They believe that no one else can compare to God. The Jews and the Christians have it all wrong and are interpreting the scripture wrong. They don’t believe the messenger was telling the truth. In the Qur’an it says, “Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]; there is only One God.” (pg. 75, 5:73) Allah is also portrayed as forgiving and merciful. At the start of each Surah is “In the name of God, the Lord of Mercy, the Giver of Mercy.” God is the creator of everything and all knowing. He knows the secrets of the heart and is all powerful. While being the most powerful creator he is still very forgiving. “God forgives all sins. He is truly the Most Forgiving, the Most Merciful.” (pg. 299) Many times in the Qur’an they repeat statements such as this about God being forgiving and merciful. Like in the Bible, one should fear God. “Say ‘I fear the torment of a terrible Day if I disobey my lord.’”(pg. 296) During the Day of Resurrection, people will be judged and evildoers will suffer in the hereafter for what they have done and the good will be rewarded and kept safe by God.
How does the Qur’an describe Hell and Satan? Hell in the Qur’an is also called the Fire. “Enjoy your ingratitude for a little while: you will be one of the inhabitants of the Fire.” (pg. 296) Any evildoer will be sent to the Fire. They will suffer more in the hereafter. “Enter the gates of Hell: there you will remain. How evil is the abode of the arrogant!” (pg. 300) Satan in the Qur’an happens to be called Iblis. He was made of fire which connects him to Hell which is also called the Fire. Iblis refused to bow down to God’s creation, man. He believes that he is better than Adam. Satan gets Adam and Eve eat from the Tree of Eternity. God tells them “Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?” (7.22)Satan is portrayed as the enemy of man in the Qur’an. “We made the Satans friends (only) to those without faith.” (7.27) Only those who have no faith are friends with Satan and “shall be companions of the Fire.” (2.39)
How are disbelievers handled? “No one can guide those that God leaves to stray.” (pg. 297) There is no help for the disbelievers in the Qur’an. “So who could be more wrong than the person who invents a lie about God and rejects the truth when it comes to him? Is there not a home for the disbelievers in Hell?” (pg. 297) “If the disbelievers possessed all that is in the earth and twice as much again and offered it to ransom themselves from torment on the Day of Resurrection, it would not be accepted from them- they will have a painful torment. They will wish to come out of the Fire but they will be unable to do so: theirs will be a lasting torment.” (pg. 71) The disbelievers will suffer in Hell because God knows who believes and who doesn’t. If you do believe you will be rewarded and get into the Garden with its flowing streams. On page 70, it tells of Moses and his people. God tells them to enter the land but the people are afraid. Since they don’t believe, trust, and obey God, “The land is forbidden to them for forty years.” (5.26)In the story of Noah, Noah says “Lord do not leave a single disbeliever on the earth- if you leave them they will lead Your servants astray and beget only licentious disbeliever.” (pg. 392, 71.26) Noah wants God to drown all the disbelievers in the Flood. He only wants God to forgive the believers and for the evildoers to be sent to Hell. In the Qur’an any of “Those who have rejected the revelations of God will be the losers.”(pg. 299)
There was just a thought that went through my mind when reading your final question and statement. I find it funny that when it comes to God being a forgiving and merciful lord, he doesn't seem all that forgiving and merciful to the non-believers. I can understand why, but when I think about what Akman said in class about Muslim theologists believing that the Qur'an states that God made the three different religions on purpose and that if God had wanted to, He could have just made everyone Muslim, coudldn't one stand to believe that God made unbelievers too? Maybe God would forgive unbelievers as well that do good deeds and have a moral code, but just don't believe that their moral code is within a religious text.
This was the first time I’ve ever read any piece of the Qur’an and there were several things that really distinguished it from Genesis to me. The first was the writing style was easier to read and understand in Genesis than in the Qur’an. Genesis was a narrative that was easily followed and was chronologically ordered for the most part. The Qur’an seems to skip from event to event and the use of “We” was especially confusing because often I didn’t understand whom “We” entailed. Was it supposed to be “God” in the holy trinity, as Christians believe, or the angles or the prophet and the angles or even the prophet and “God”. The writing style was not easy to follow and I believe it may just be a cultural difference, where I am not use to the style.
Another point of difference is in the way the Qur’an treats and talks about other religions, specifically Jewish and Christian people. Lines like “ They distort the meaning of revealed words and have forgotten some of what they were told to remember: you Prophet will always find treachery in all but a few of them. Overlook this and pardon them: God loves those who do good.” give the impression that there is nothing wrong with believing differently than Muslims do as long as the people do good (5:13). But later in that very chapter the lines “”You who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as allies: they are allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them- God does not guide such wrongdoers-….” Convey a different meaning (5:51). It seems to be the exact opposite of the early lines, and the message seems to flip flop several times throughout the chapter. In Genesis we see the constant punishment of those who believe differently and do not worship “God”.
There are many discrepancies in both of these works; neither is without its flaws. It would be interesting to take a look at the original text translated, as closely as possible, and discern what was added and what is actually the same. Much of what we read in these books today may be additions made by translators in their attempt to preserve the meaning behind each story. Either way both pieces of literature give an insight into how cultures and civilizations were shaped around them.
I generally agree with your comment about the writing style of both texts. While the Bible tends to have a linear story, the Qur'an tends to be all over the place chronologically. Having said that, I think that, once you've pieced together all of the parts of an event from the Qur'an, it tends to be considerably more detailed and understandable than it's Biblical counterpart. I also think that the language in the Qur'an is much easier to understand than the language in the Bible, but this is likely just due to the differences in translation.
I also noticed the discrepancies regarding the treatment of disbelievers. I don't fully understand the apparent contradictions in the Qur'an, although the impression I got was generally one of respect towards those who practice other religions, especially after what we discussed in class today.
I agree that God seemed to be much more benevolent and forgiving in the Qur'an than the Bible. As some one who was raised in a fairly strong Christian environment and who had never studied Islam before, this was surprising to me. In comparison to the God of the Qur'an, the God of the Bible seems unjustly and excessively violent.
This was also the first time that I have read portions of the “Qur'an” and to me this piece of literature was composed in an attractive way. It was more difficult to understand than Genesis, but I believe this is because “The Bible” has been translated into lay-mans terms to be understood by the masses, while the “Qur'an” that I have read from is from a website that conveys the necessary information in a poetic way. The discomfort that I felt whioe reading the “Qur'an” was because almost all of the information is exactly the same as reading from “The Bible” with minor differences that flesh out some of the mysteries that “The Bible” leaves the reader with. The quotes used from the “Qur'an” in Alec's article can be viewed as disturbing when connecting them to the actions of extremists, but I viewed, “”You who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as allies: they are allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them- God does not guide such wrongdoers-….(5:51),” as these two religions can remain separate from you and you do not have to deal with these people or their ideology if you chose not to. I feel that it is similar to not mentioning politics at a dinner table where someone has dissimilar views to you. You aren't going to be asking them to support you in an argument pertaining to politics, but that doesn't mean you can't live peacefully with them. I would also love to read a closely translated version of these texts. I feel it would be interesting and informative, but the text will not have the poetry or beauty that it carries in its original language.
I agree that the “We” used in the Qur’an was a bit confusing to read about. In the Bible the reading was mostly in stories while the Qur’an skipped around and repeated a lot. I felt that the language was easier to understand in the Qur’an than in the Bible though. With the repetition it was easy to see what they were talking about and understand the point they were getting across. While in the Bible they went on about the generations of people and how long they lived which had no point to the stories.
The Qur’an mentions that you shouldn’t be allies with the Jews and Christians. I think this was mainly because the Qur’an believes that Christians and Jews have misinterpreted the scriptures that the prophets brought down from God. The Qur’an says that those who don’t follow God will get what’s coming to them. So you shouldn’t worry about any disbelievers or other people and only worry about following God like you should and doing good. By doing good, you will get rewarded in the hereafter.
I agree that the God described in the Bible is harsher than the one in the Qur’an. In the Qur’an they emphasize that God is merciful and forgiving. In Genesis, God regrets every making human kind and decides to just kill them all. He creates the flood and kills everything except what Noah brings on the ark. While in the Qur’an it’s Noah who pleads to God to kill all the disbelievers in the Flood. In Genesis, even after the flood, God continues to kill people that he believes should be killed, such as in Sodom and Gomorrah. In both the Bible and the Qur’an God believe people should fear him though and trust in him. Such as when Abraham is willing to sacrifice his own son in order to show his trust in God.
I think that the translations get the basic point across but there could be some changes that are created from the different translators. Both have been translated many times in many languages and it could have potentially changed some of the meaning behind the works.
Who does Allah favor? Through out the Qur’an, in order to be in Allah’s favor all you had to do is fear him. Anyone who did not show fear or respect would be punished or destroyed. This is shown in the chapter on Noah. The people did not fear Allah. When Noah went to them and told them to fear Allah they refuse to listen to him, "And every time I have called to them, that Thou mightest forgive them, they have (only) thrust their fingers into their ears, covered themselves up with their garments, grown obstinate, and given themselves up to arrogance” (71.7). Due to their actions, Allah told Noah to build an arc and then put a male and female from every species and all who feared him on it. After Noah told Allah how horrible the people were and said, “"O my Lord! Leave not of the Unbelievers, a single one on earth! “ (71.26) Then Allah destroyed all the humans on Earth who didn’t fear him by a giant flood. Therefore, anyone who did not fear Allah was destroyed.
Were women equal to men in the Qur’an? Women were treated equally to men. “…Men and women; fear Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual rights…” (4.1). In the story of Satan, Eve was treated equally to Adam. They were both given the same rule, they were forbidden to eat from “The Tree of Eternity.” They broke this rule after being deceived by Satan. Then they were given an equal punishment, “…get ye down, both of you-all together, from the Garden…” (20.123) So in the Qur’an unlike the Old Testament, Eve did not take the blame for eating the fruit and Allah didn’t punish all women by making childbirth more painful. Allah punished both Adam and Eve by giving them a mortal life, sending them to Earth, and making them aware of their sexuality. Therefore, at this point of time women were treated equally.
How would you gain Allah’s forgiveness? As mentioned previously, in order for Allah to favor someone they had to fear and show him respect. But what happens when someone disrespects him and they regret it? All they have to do is ask for forgiveness. Allah unlike God in the Old Testament is very forgiving. In the story of Satan, Allah was extremely angry with Adam and Eve for eating the fruit. However, when they asked for forgiveness, “Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us they mercy, we shall certainly be lost” (7.23) Allah forgave them. So in order to gain Allah’s forgiveness all a person has to do is ask for it.
1) I got the impression that Allah favored anyone who did good deeds not those who feared/respected him. "God loves those who do good.” (5:13) is one of the lines in the early chapters that seems to say that he cares more about your actions than wether you fear him.
2) I agree in Genesis there was much more emphasis on the inequality of man and woman, but in the Qur'ran it seems the exact opposite.
3) Allah does seem much more forgiving than the god portrayed in the Qur'ran, he doesn't deal out the punishments. He is much more forgiving than the Genesis god, rather than condemn Adam and his wife forever he simply banishes them from the garden for the time being. When they die they will return to the garden for eternity.
I do support your claim that Allah does desire fear from the people. But I think Allah more wants loyalty and acts of good in order to obtain his favor. I think that Allah more uses fear to keep people on the track to either earning his favor or his forgivness.
While reading the Qur'an I also noticed how men and women were described more as equals than as male being superior. However I would point out how there is not as much mention of women in the Qur'an as in Genesis.
Allah does forgive those who show him fear and respect. But, also those who show true remorse for their sinnful actions. In the Qur'an when Cain slew Abel, God forgave Cain after he had expressed true and sincere remorse for his actions.
I agree that God wants people to fear him but I also think that the Qur’an portrays God as forgiving and merciful. Many times throughout the Qur’an they say that God is forgiving and merciful. Noah told God to kill all the disbelievers in the Flood. In the Qur’an it says that God forgives all sins and that disbelievers will get what is coming to them in the hereafter. I feel that the God shown in the Bible was harsher than the one in the Qur’an.
In the creation story of the Qur’an man and woman are shown equally. They both ate the fruit as opposed to Eve giving the fruit to Adam that is shown in the Bible. They also were both punished and left to wander around earth. But woman are not shown equally throughout the Qur’an. Lut’s wife and Abraham’s wife are both shown to be the ones who question God and are shown as inferior. Woman are more equal in the Qur’an that in the Bible. In the Bible, Eve was created from Adam. While in the Qur’an both man and woman were created at the same time.
I agree that Allah was very forgiving. If asked for forgiveness, it would be granted. . “God forgives all sins. He is truly the Most Forgiving, the Most Merciful.” (pg. 299) If you do good deeds you will be awarded in the hereafter. Any people who don’t believe in Allah cannot be helped and will suffer in Hell. As long as you believe in God and do good deeds you will be allowed into the Garden upon death. In the Qur’an it mentions that you shouldn’t eat hunted animals during a pilgrimage but that God would forgive you for eating it if you were starving. This shows that God has rules but is willing to forgive transgressions if they occur.
Even from just reading the short passages assigned to us on the Qur’an I have noticed several differences between it and the Bible. For starters, the Qur’an is very repetitive. It explains the same things over and over through different surahs while the Bible flows through each chapter like a story book. Also, in the Qur’an Allah seems to have more power than God does in the Bible. For instance, they each took six days to build the Earth but in the Bible God rests and claims the seventh day as a holy day for resting. Allah doesn’t need to rest he shows no weakness being a God unlike the God in the Bible. As the stories unfold throughout the Qur’an they are not in specific orders so you have to jump around surahs to stay in the same sequence as the Bible chapters are. However, as the stories do unfold, there are many differences shown throughout. First, in the Bible, man is created from dust but in the Qur’an man is created by molten dirt. Then, a woman is made from the rib of the man, Adam, to form Eve, but in the Qur’an Allah makes both sexes. When they eat the forbidden fruit Adam and Eve blame each other in the Bible but in the Qur’an they both repent. God punishes Adam and Eve by giving them death, and painful childbirths, but in the Qur’an Allah forgives Adam and Eve for eating the fruit and makes them go to Earth and leave paradise not suggesting anything about death or sinning or pain. These are just a few examples. From what I have read so far, God in the Bible seems like a real hard ass and Allah is more gracious and kind. I think Allah is more merciful while God is more power hungry and dictatorial. They both have their own laws but take care of wrongdoings in very different ways it seems.
That's a valid point about God's more merciful temperament in the Qur'an, as compared to his wrathful nature in The Old Testament. What then, does this discrepancy in how God acts mean? What purpose does the Qur'an's more benevolent interpretation of God serve? I think the answer probably lies in how God is portrayed in one of the Abrahamic holy texts we haven't touched upon yet: the New Testament. From the parts of the New Testament I know of, God's disposition here is more similar to that of Allah in the Qur'an; he's more merciful and more benevolent, as demonstrated by the fact that he sends his only son and/or prophet (depending on one's perspective) to die in order to redeem all people. Since both the Old and New Testaments are essentially canonical in the Islamic faith, the two ideas of how God acts needed to be reconciled. That is the purpose of the Old Testament stories being retold in the Qur'an but featuring a much more Magnanimous God: the Qur'an retroactively inserts the New Testament God of mercy in substitution for the Old Testament God of Wrath in order to create a more seamless, cohesive religion.
The Qu'ran being repetitive makes a bit of sense. The Qu'ran is shorter than the Old Testament and has been around for less time. There's also of it being memorized by huffaz (something that is considered very admirable) so repetition helps with that. Pragmatically, it being repetitive helps with that.
The Qu'ran being admirable re: gender is pretty interesting considering the West's view of Muslims as backwards regarding gender discrimination and paternalistic attitude.
I believe the point of the repetitive phrases is to underline the importance of the message in that phrase. For example at the start of each surah when they praise Allah and call him merciful they really want to stress that point. It is a concept and characteristic of Allah that continually pops up throughout the Qur'ran, which contrasts him to the very vengeful God portrayed in Genesis. The point you bring up with the punishment dealt to Adam and his wife is an example of where they differ. Allah simply dismisses them from the garden for the time being and allows them to return when they die. The God depicted in Genesis on the other hand is much more strict and angry with Adam and his wife and punish them harshly never allowing them to return to the garden and giving specific punishments for Adam, Eve, and the snake.
These points you make, showing the differences between the Bible and the Qur'an, are very interesting. As you said, the Qur'an is very repetitive. Maybe this is because the ideas are better implanted in people's minds in this way. It would be much easier to remember each of the surahs since they are so redundant. However, the storybook tactic the Bible takes makes the context much more interesting to read, and would probably draw more people in. These are just some points of view to take when thinking about the differences in writing. One point to make is that in the Bible, at one point it seems that God creates both Adam and Eve at the same time. It is kind of contradictory with this because right after, it switches to the "rib" version we all know so well. I am curious why in the Bible Adam and Eve blame each other and why they repent in the Qur'an. It could be an interesting discussion to have. I think they blame one another out of fear, as they know full well that they should fear God. However, knowing how forgiving God is supposed to be, repenting like they did in the Qur'an could have been a smarter decision. Like you said, Allah seems to be more merciful than the power hungry God of the Bible. That could account for the difference in reactions given by Adam and Eve upon eating the fruit. Perhaps if they had repented in the Bible, God being a "hard ass" might still have reacted the same way.
I agree with the statement that Allah is more merciful than God in the Bible. Another example that shows how Allah shows more mercy is in the surah on Noah. In the bible God regrets his decision on creating humans after seeing how evil they can be. On the other hand Allah doesn’t regret creating humans. Noah is the one who resents humans and goes to Allah and tells him that the people who do not fear him should be destroyed. Therefore, Allah is more understanding and shows more mercy than God in the Bible.
The Qur’an and the Bible are two different telling’s of the same story. Both tell the story of the creation of man and man’s fall. By reading both of these books it really helps us to gain an understanding of different cultures and at certain points makes us question them as well. Both of these books contain contradictions, and there are even more contradictions with the followers actions. The three Abrahamic religions are closely related to each other and with further reading of these texts it perplexes me that these religions fight so much. It seems that religion disputes on the small differences instead of thriving on their similarities. In Surah 5:5 it seems to say that the “people of the book” or Jews are okay for Muslims to marry for they share many things in common but in other parts of the text they are not friendly to the Jewish people. The Gods of these two different books are very similar. They both require obedience and take offense to any worship that is not for them. The Qur’an surah 39 line 29 states “a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a man belonging entirely to one master: are those two equal in comparison? Praise be to Allah. But most of them have no knowledge” This is further proof that Allah does not respect any who try to worship anything except him. This is very strange because when you think of God you would usually not attribute such human emotions like jealousy to them. They also both claim to reward their true followers and punish those who do not follow them. Many religions prohibit certain foods and maintain that it was their god who told them not to consume certain animals. For Muslims and Jews it is pork, dead animals, and for Jews they also cannot eat shellfish. Now some people take this as literally god telling them not to eat these foods, but with further thinking people can understand why they should not eat such foods. Pigs are filthy animals and if they are not cooked right, it is very likely that one will get sick from it, especially with the cooking methods of early Muslims and Jews. The obvious reason for not eating dead animals is that they have already started to decompose and very serious illness can come from consuming them. And for shellfish it could be that people did not prepare them right or even that some people had an allergic reaction to them. All of these could have been interpreted as a sign from god to not eat these foods.
I agree that these three Abrahamic religions do have many similarities and people should focus on that more than the differences. There is too much violence among differences in religious beliefs and it needs to be stopped. People need to believe in what they believe in, but also respect what others believe in as well.
By reading about the Bible and learning how God confronts problems and his attitude towards humans, and comparing it to the Qur’an and how Allah confronts the same problems you can see that these God’s are similar in how they do things. They try to act godly with super powers but in some instances like you have brought up they act very humanly. They don’t like people who confront them in what they are doing or how they act but they praise people who trust in their judgments. They want everyone to have faith in them but not have to show why they should trust their God. Most people want reassurance that they are doing the correct thing and what is by law.
Some people do go overboard about the different kinds of foods that are not allowed to eat in their specific religions. They should just have the common knowledge that these foods will be harmful to the body and that their God wants to just help them be safe and make right choices. However, some people feel that this is a law passed down by their God and they should never eat such foods. Since the food is pork, dead animals, and shellfish it is understandable why people shouldn’t eat them raw. People should never want to eat dead animal just because of the danger of what it would do to their body. Just because God says not to eat it there are some circumstances that it would be okay, like if it is well cooked, or a survival instinct.
You mention God having jealous emotions - I feel that this is a mistake, because the concept of God is supposed to be beyond such, as you say it, "human" pettiness. The line that you mention about many partners and a single master seems to be more attacking the idea of Pagan religion: many gods make it so that its easy to have fighting between them, and having a "single master" means that you can be devoted much more strongly to that one being. This is a commonality amongst all the Abrahamic religions, as you correctly noted, because it is fundamental to the concept of monotheism that there is one supreme deity, and that all others are inferior. The Quran simply brings in the notion of infighting amongst those smaller gods, as a reason to abandon it in what was the primarily pagan (at least during the advent of Islam) Near and Middle East.
The food restrictions you mention also have a purpose beyond staying healthy and avoidant of dangerous foods: it serves as a tribal marker, so that people are more readily able to congregate together without having to ask each passerby if they were in the right book club. These symbolic actions were also a way of continuing the act of worshipping away from idols and shrines and into homes, where the practice became an integral part of worshipping their God. It is similar in a respect to the wearing of yarmulkes for Judaism, or the crucifix, or any other religious symbol.
The religions experience infighting simply because they are so similar - the minute differences between groups are often the most infuriating. This leads to competition between religions, and it makes inquisitory dialogue much easier when you are operating on a common set of principles. In other words, it is a lot harder to convert a Buddhist to Islam than it is a Jew, or a Christian, simply because there are so many different core concepts and world views. Without these differences, they would be stand-alone claims to divinity, which have a lot more room to wither and die, rather than religions based on already widely accepted stories and lessons.
I feel similarly to you when reading the Qur'an and the Bible. I think they are very similar. I would be interested, and I don't know if Prof. Akman has mentioned this, but when in comparison each one of these books was supposedly written. It seems to me like any other book or series of books. Obviously, the old testament was probably written first. So the Jewish had the Torah... Now what? Next the Christians say, let's make a sequal and write the New Testament. This keeps it popular, but the diehard old testament fans are going to stick with the old testament. Finally the Muslims come in and say, "they've got it all wrong." From their understanding they make a few revisions and change a few stories to make it sound like they believe it should. This catches on too for some people, but again, some people are Team Old Testament and some people are Team Old and New Testament and then some like the different stories. There's looking at all three from a strictly literal sense.
Amanda Thomas Humn 220 Akman Blog #3 What is the meaning of Satan in the words of The Qur’an? Going into the class today I never read The Qur’an so was not sure what to expect of it. After reading the reading I learned that even though it is a different practicing religion then my own, it has very many similar aspects taught such as the aspects of Satan in day to day life. Reading the story of creation and Satan in The Qur’an can have many different ties to The Bible and other religions as well as other important events for the religion. According to The Qur’an Satan is seen a lot more in the creation of earth and of mankind. Allah is said to have created earth and mankind in a similar way as God did in the bible. Man is created out of clay and Satan is made from fire. I see this to symbolize that man is made from the earth as clay is a form a ground material found on earth and is abundant everywhere making man arise everywhere under the rule of Allah according to The Qur’an. Satan being fire can show this as being the devil as the devil is often seen with fire and heat being he wants to stir things up and disobey what Allah is trying to say to his followers. When they ate from the tree of eternity Allah arose and told them that he said to not listen to Satan and that he will try and make you do things that would disobey me. But by sinning against Allah, Satan does not see a punishment in The Qur’an as one would see in The Bible. Satan me continue to do this as he does not see a reward in people following him in fact all he sees is Allah telling people they did wrong but not suffering from it in any way. Allah also is seen telling future children to not let Satan play any role in their life as he may have with their parents. Satan is seen as an important figure in that he is part of the natural life of human but also as a figure who is trying to tell people the other side of Allah and to disobey him. Maybe by doing this he wants people to know the true effect of Allah and the full power of him and what it truly means to worship him. Satan can also be seen as a rebel against Allah in that he does not want to mankind. This can be seen as he does not think of himself as less than of Allah himself and does not feel that mankind should be out in front of him in the eyes of Allah. Comparing this to The Bible one can see a big difference. Satan is never really affirmed in The Bible as he is in The Qur’an. Satan can only be imagined as certain forms or what he is trying to tell mankind on his views. Some of this is true when it comes to The Qur’an but Satan identifies himself and makes something’s a bit clearer as to what he is trying to tell mankind. It can be seen as he wants to put his input on things and how he thinks Allah should run his earth according to him.
I agree with you in your statements about Satan. Satan seems to be the villain in the three Abrahamic religions. He causes many issues for humans because he believes they are not superior. I believe there is significance in the Qu'ran stating that Satan is made of fire and humans from clay because you can use fire to heat clay and form things from it. Much like how Satan influences people into doing things. Allah warns mankind of Satan’s intentions but Satan seems to always be able to influence people. This brings up the question whether Satan is right about mankind being inferior. I believe that Satan ultimately represents man’s temptation. It’s a lot easier to ask for forgiveness for any act when you can claim a malevolent supernatural being was influencing you. I also agree with you that the bible does not reference Satan in it, and that people just assume that the snake is the Satan because he is the tempter in the story.
How does the Quran differ from the Bible in its portrayal of evil in the world? Is the Quran more egalitarian from a feminist viewpoint? How does man’s position change from the time of the Hebrew Scripture to that of the Quran?
The subject of the origin of evil in the world is a common theme throughout all of the world’s religions - Abrahamic and otherwise. The biggest cause of evil within the Hebrew Scriptures come primarily from acts of God: just through different avenues of action. When Satan acts out against Job the power that was relinquished to Satan came at God’s discretion (Job 1:12). Even at that point, God lays the ultimate line of not causing mortal harm to Job himself, retaining the judgment of life and death within his domain. It acts as one of the constant reminders of God’s supremacy over all forces good and evil found throughout what is commonly called the Old Testament. In the Quran, many great evils come from the openly defiant figure also known as Satan, who is in fact a creature called a Jinn; who are made of fire - a point of contention between God and his demands of subservience towards man (Heights 12). Satan is directly attributed with propagating evil in a way somewhat out of God’s purview, tempting man into sinning.
All throughout Genesis, the book outlining the creation of man and all else, the Hebrew Scriptures constantly reaffirms the ideal that women should be subservient to their male superiors, right from the very instance of their creation (Genesis 2:18-23). Women are blamed for the very original sin, as made famous with the talking serpent episode in Genesis, and are cursed with the pains of childbirth and an eternity of being lesser to man (Genesis 3). This is not as emphasised within the Quran - both man and woman is described of eating of the forbidden fruit, and suffering their fall from grace as a combined experience of humanity. There are not as many instances of women being singled out for being simple minded, or contrary to godliness as a matter of inherent nature. Its far from being legitimately feminist in scope - no conservative religion is - but it is a little better than the open derision and belittlement found in Judaism and Christianity. A commonality between the Quran and the Hebrew Scripture is that God made man from the Earth - and that God granted man life. This, however, is where the religions diverge in ideals. Christianity places humanity on a plane distinctly below heavently beings - as found in Job, the beings that live with God outside of time and space are meant to be consultatory with God over the fate of mankind. However, the Quran distinctly shows that other heavenly beings are meant to be servants of man, to act as conduits to God (Heights 11). The Quran and Islam also fails to mention that humanity is made in God’s image - a stark departure from the earlier sects of Abrahamic faith, further removing God from the worldly and mortal. It could be said that, within the context of the Old Testament and the Quran, that Islam places Humanity both on a higher level than Hebrew scriptures while also being further away from where God stands.
Yes evil is seen throughout both the Bible and the Qur'an but in different forms and different meanings. The causes of evil do come from acts of God but also from how humans respond and interpret what they believe in. The cause evil just as well as God himself does. Women are blamed for the sin and do not fight back for their punishment while men sometimes know of their punishment and refuse to accept the punishment and that can be a reason for them blaming women in the Bible. The Qur'an does not single women out and instead makes them have the same importance in the religion as man. Christians believe women have a lower power and certain roles according to the bible as in the Qur'an sets man and women equal and whoever does something sinful will pay whether it is man or women. The religions really never diverge in beliefs. They have the same ideas and concepts but just practice them in a different way. The Qur'an says that man should not be made in Gods image that he is different than humans and cannot be seen as all the same. The Bible wants man equal but if man is equal then why is blame put on women when a man sins? The Qur'an can be seen as having a more important role of how people follow and how the act and respond. The Bible is more a set of rules and what can be done and what cannot be done and what happens if someone disobeys.
How is Noah portrayed in each book? Comparing the Qur’an and the Bible was very interesting. In the Bible, we see that God is punishing all of mankind for being bad, and not believing. God plans the destruction of the world, and tells Noah to build an ark so he and his family can survive. In the Qur’an, God sends Noah to the people to warn them to change their ways, lest they are subjected to God’s punishment. When Noah does this, he finds them unwilling. He angrily asks God “Lord, bring nothing but destruction down on the evil doers.” (71:24) God complies with this, and sends the evildoers to Hell.
Is the God in the Qur’an more like the God that everyone thinks of? In Genesis, the God that I met was not one I had met in Sunday school. I was always taught that he was merciful and that his love knows no bounds. But here in the first few pages of the Bible, he wipes out the planet, and desecrates two cities. He is quick and harsh to judge Eve, and Adam. But in the Qur’an, we see this merciful, judicious God. His understanding toward the first man and woman, even if he was angry at first, shows how much he loves the human race, even when they sin. Although the Flood took place in both, in the Qur’an, he is asked by his faithful servant to do this for him; even though it means the loss of his wife and son. But in the Bible, he does it to teach a lesson, and saves only Noah’s family because he was faithful.
What are the food restrictions found in the Qur’an? In the Qur’an, we find that there is a restriction on the food they are allowed to consume. “You are forbidden to eat carrion; blood; pig’s meat … any animal strangled, or victim of a violent blow or a fall, or gored or savaged by a beast of prey….” (5:3) We find that these foods are consistently found in restrictions of diets by religion, as they are very similar to that of the Jews, and to the Christians. The reason for these seem to be more of an issue of health, as there are many diseases that can be caught from dead animals not properly prepared.
I can only agree with you, Mark - the God portrayed in the old Hebrew Scriptures is a cruel and pernicious being indeed. There can only be one explanation for the incongruity in preconceived notions and the scriptural reality: cultural indoctrination with the express goal of otherizing Islam and its adherents. With knowledge of recent (read: post 9/11/2001) American history regarding Islam, this is anything but surprising. In fact, it is much closer to horribly depressing.
I have a feeling that, if children in sunday school were encouraged to read the Bible, the Torah, and the Quran they would come to a similar conclusion as yourself: God is way nicer in the Quran. I am comfortable with that statement with just Noah in mind; there does not seem to be anything compassionate or eternally good about unilaterally deciding to kill nearly everyone and everything on earth, for the sin of not following a god they never really hear from. Noah in the Quran is totally absolved of what would be tremendous guilt for not being able to save people other than his family - the only option available in the Hebrew Bible. This is a common theme throughout the book, where God takes out scores of innocent people for similar transgressions.
The dietary restrictions, I believe, are a product of the sanitary conditions (or more likely lack thereof) that were prevalent throughout antiquity. It makes sense to tell adherents of a religion to have distinctive semi-tribal characteristics that also serve to protect from dangerous food sources, like garbage-eating pigs or shellfish from dirty and untreated water. The same can be said for ritual slaughter of animals, and the preparation of their meat.
I also found it very interesting that one single character could have such contrasting roles between the bible and the qur'an. In the bible Noah is concerned with obeying god and saving his loved ones and his people from the coming destruction. On the other hand, in the qur'an, Noah gets easily frustrated with his people and decides that he does not care if they are saved. He continues to tell god that he thinks god should destroy them all due to their lack of believing in what he says. I thought the same thing about the god that is described between the bible and the qur'an. The god in the bible seems very quick to destroy everything. He does things out of spite or just to show he can. The god in the Qur'an is more understanding and appears to be all knowing and merciful but does not feel the need to show off all that he can do. I agree that the god in the quran is that god that I have learned about my whole life.
What you wrote is completely true in my mind. In the Bible God is more of a ruthless dictator but in the Qur’an he is more considerate and gracious. During Noah’s time God is furious with how the humans are behaving and decides to destroy everything but in the Qur’an he tells Noah to make the people change their ways and because they don’t listen, then, Allah steps in and send them all to hell.
I was confirmed at Lutheran Christian church and while I went through Sunday school and confirmation class, I too felt the same way about God. That he should forgive us for our sins and help us and have enough love for the entire world and the people in it. However, reading Genesis, Exodus, and Job I have realized this is completely not true and he acts like a dictator. However, in the Qur’an he is more sincere and merciful. The God from the Islamic religion is more like the god I grew up knowing not the one from the Christian religion.
I think that these foods were forbidden because of health risks as well and Allah was just trying to keep his people who believed in him healthier and have better lives. You can eat these substances out of starvation but they do have drastic health risks, especially the dead animals.
When reading the Qur'an I noticed quite a few differences between the Qur'an and the Bible. Although they both have the same basic stories, the way that things happen are different. In the Qur'an, God is depicted as very fair and just at first. The narrative gives God a more understanding look. But as you read further the Qur'an goes on to discuss how to punish non-believers. If it is believed that someone is trying to go against the word of God and spread "corruption" then they can be punished by death as well as loss of a hand or foot, or even be banished. My question is why does the Qur'an refer to God as just and Merciful if non-believers are punished by death or amputation? Shouldn't a just and merciful god be tolerant of different views and only do good for the people who believe? Another thing that was different was that in the Bible it does not specify how god created man, it only says that man was created then woman was created from mans rib. In the Qur'an, it was said that man was made from clay and mud and then his counter-part was made. Also in the Qur'an, man was created before the animals. The Bible says that man was created in Gods image, but the Qur'an says that man was molded and shaped out of clay and doesn't specify if God was modeling man from a certain image. Another question I thought about was why did this change between the two stories? Is the God in the Qur'an not of human form? Maybe the god in the Qur'an did not want his servants to look equal to him. Lastly, I found it interesting that the Qur'an says that intoxicants and gambling are examples of how satan entices people into doing bad things. I'm curious as to how this idea came about because it is still carried on today. The Bible never mentioned these things specifically, it only eluded to the idea that satan was behind temptation. Free will plays a bigger role in what people choose to do with their free time whether it be intoxicating themselves with drugs or alcohol or gambling.
Free will seems to me to be a tricky concept in both the Old Testament and the Qur'an. How much do we actually control our own actions, especially our negative actions? Sometimes in The Old Testament when people do bad, it's of their own volition and there seems to be no one or nothing tempting them, such as Cain when he slays Abel. However, other times it's the influence of a malevolent presence that makes people do wrong, such as the Serpent's temptation of Eve to eat the fruit. Other times still it's God himself who makes people do bad things, such as when he hardens the heart of the Pharaoh so that he will not let the Israelites go. The Qur'an, partly serving the purpose of streamlining the Abrahamic tradition and removing inconsistencies, seems to posit Iblis/Satan as the ultimate deceiver of human beings who makes them do evil. Yet it also states that God does not will all people to believe the same religion, even though those who do not believe in the final truth, Islam, will be sent to hell, so there are still some inconsistencies.
I think God is merciful in the Qur’an, in comparison to the bible, where God kills thousands. But you also have to consider the time and situation of these texts. When Satan is so tempting, what would hold people faithful to their God? The threat of punishment, or the loss of paradise, keeps followers in line. Without God punishing, there would be none of the followings. But on the other side, God is also just and understanding. It entices its followers to believe in God, but at the same time, scares them from disobeying. I also think that free will is a touchy subject. When you think of free will, you think out of being able to make your own choices, regardless of everything else. In biblical context, to me it seems like God isn't allowed to interfere in your thoughts. The whole concept is to be able to choose right from wrong on your own accord. Where we see that they ban drinking and gambling, I think it more as a lifestyle tip from God, as we all know the effects of alcoholism, and the threat of gambling in ancient time, you could lose quite a bit of your livelihood.
How is salvation different in the Bible and Qur'an? In the Bible salvation is through faith of God foremost. This is seen in many of the stories like Moses. Moses believed in Gods word and was saved from the flood. In the Qur'an, salvation comes from a very different deed. In the Qur'an salvation is through sincerity and works. This is seen in (3:135) "And those who, when they commit an immorality or wrong themselves [by transgression], remember Allah and seek forgiveness for their sins - and who can forgive sins except Allah ? - and [who] do not persist in what they have done while they know."
Why is there a different view about prophesies in the two holy books? In the Bible there are many prophesies Jesus makes a few and he is a prophesy in Isaiah 53. "Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand." It is interesting that while the Bible has many prophesies the Qur'an hasn't thus far had any. Why is this? In the Qur'an, is there no one who speaks for God?
Why is there such a different perception about human beings in both the books? In the Qur'an men and women are judged for their actions, they are not sinful from birth and are not inherently evil but in the Bible men and women are sinners from birth. Those are completely opposite opinions. It almost seems like Christians are meant to live in perpetual pessimism and Muslims live optimistically. Why would two Abrahamic religions be created on such completely different essential values.
I enjoy the fact that you brought up this idea that Christians are almost meant to live in perpetual pessimism and Muslims in optimism. I, too, noticed that there was something strangely more optimistic about the Qur'an than the Bible. The Qur'an was more general and much more sensitive and equal in my opinion. The most noticeable positive differences are the fact that Adam and Eve are treated equally and share together their blame and prosperity. They are both at fault for eating the forbidden fruit, they are both created out of the same clay. Where as the Bible punishes them rather harshly. This does not mean that the Qur'an itself doesn't have downfalls. When compared to the Bible, you can see immediately the dominance placed on men over women when it is said that a woman was created from the rib bone of Adam. This means that she is both a part of him but also created because of him and from him. She almost loses her own self because she is not created equally. But clearly in the end whether either is more optimistic or pessimistic, it would seem that negative qualities love to stick out more so than positive.
Your first paragraph makes an interesting point about the Quran's emphasis on sincerity and doing good deeds to achieve salvation. We have only read limited excerpts from the BIble and the Quran, but I find that the Quran does outline daily virtues more thoroughly than the Bible. Faith and loyalty to God are clearly very important in all the Abrahamic religions but thus far, the passages in the Quran seem to address other important traits that human beings should have.
In regards to your second paragraph, I believe the angel Gabriel is the answer to your question. In class we mentioned how the Quran was originally recited to Mohammed by Gabriel. Mohammed then passed on the teachings of the Quran, or the words of God, to other people. It may not be the same as what you were explaining about Jesus and his prophesies, but according to Islamic tradition, Gabriel recited the words of God to Mohammed so they he could spread God's messages. This difference between the religions could be due to the role of the angels and the jinns in Islam. It could be there role to directly speak for God; God is the almighty and human beings may not have the capacity to speak the words of God.
Questions about the Qur’an How is the God in the Qur’an different from the God in the Bible? It is fairly well known that the God in the Qur’an, who shall now on be referred to as Allah, and the God in the Bible have been said to have done some things different from each other. They also seemed to be portrayed differently in each book. The main difference between Allah and the Christian God seems to be that Allah is a more forgiving God. The prime example of this in the Qur’an is when Allah finds out that Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit from the Tree of Immortality. This was shown in the Qur’an, in The Heights 7:23-24, “‘"Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?"’ They said: ‘"Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If Thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost."’ (Allah) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."” (The Heights, 7:23-24.) This quote shows that Allah gave Adam and Eve mercy even though they directly disobeyed him. In the Bible, God showed them no mercy, making Eve suffer through the pain of childbirth and causing original sin, and also by forcing them out of the Garden of Eden. Allah said that they would only be exiled for a while, and maybe in time or after death they would be allowed back in. Another difference between Allah and the Christian God is that Allah did not rest on the 7th day after he created the universe. Allah said that a God would not get weary like a human being would. Another important difference between Allah and the Christian God is that Allah did not create man in his image. Allah said that it is not possible for a human to look like a supreme eternal being. There are some key differences between the ways God is portrayed in the Muslim world and how God is portrayed in the Christian world.
It is an important distinction that the Muslim Allah is separated by more distance from humanity than the Christian God. The fact remains that the zeitgeist of these Abrahamic religions are the same. Both Gods give orders, and both punish. If a God punishes a human and the human replies "oh merciful lord" does that truly make a God merciful. Mercy is only perceived, but if both Gods punish and reward according to their own will, is either more forgiving or more merciful. And is there really a need for God to ever feel unforgiving towards a creature he made. If my dog had an accident on the carpet, I don't need to forgive him but train him better. Why try to forgive the animals innate nature.
Colin Moore Pt.2 Who are the Jinn and is it possible that Satan is actually part of the Jinn? The Jinn are the third type of being in the Qur’an. The other two are angels and human beings. The Jinn are a third type of being that cannot be seen by humans, yet they can see humans. Jinn can be evil, good, or neutral in the ways they decide to act. The bigger question however is whether or not Satan, the supposed fallen angel was really and angel, or was part of the Jinn. I would say that personally, I believe that Satan was a part of the Jinn. I believe this because it would not make since that beings like angels would have the ability to sin against God. It does not seem likely that angels would have enough freewill to be able to rebel. Satan blatantly sinned when he refused to bow down before the newly made-of-clay Adam. Another reason why I believe Satan may be part of the Jinn because both the Jinn and Satan are made out of fire. This is said in the Rocky Tract when Muhammad said, “We created man from sounding clay, from mud molded into shape; And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.” (The Rocky Tract, 15:26-27.) This quote shows that both Jinn and Satan were made out fire. It may be possible that Satan is a part of the Jinn since he was able to rebel against God and show some amount of freewill. What kind of decisions has Allah made and what kind of things has he shown humans? At one point in the Qur’an God addressed people of different religions such as Christians and Jews. One quote in the Qur’an that shows what Allah said was, “The Jews and Christians say, ‘We are the children of God and His beloved ones.’ Say, ‘Then why does He punish you for your sins? You are merely human beings, part of His creation: He forgives whoever He will and punishes whoever He will. Control of the heavens and earth and all that is between them belongs to Him: all journeys lead to Him” (The Feast, 5:18.) This is an attempt by Allah to prove to Jews and Christians that following Him is a better idea because he is seemingly more forgiving. Allah also made the decision to make the Jews wander the desert with Moses for forty years because there were nonbelievers among Moses that began to not listen to him. Allah decided that nonbelievers deserve to suffer and wander aimlessly around the desert. Finally, Allah showed the son of Adam, most likely Cain, that he should bury dead bodies even if he murdered them. He should also pray for them. Allah has shown humans the right course to go through life.
If Satan is part of the Jinn then how can he play a role of both good and evil as well as neutral in the lives of humans. Satan is not know for being good and the Jinn can be seen in the Qur'an as quiet angels. They are a form of humans I believe created by God to play a more neutral part not the part of Satan or the part of angels but to take neither side and have a better understanding of what is going on in the religion. Satan has rebelled but angels cannot so what makes Jinn able to rebel and what is the importance of having a third being on earth? Some may say it is just a neutral entity that does not take the sides of anyone. He may be made of fire but fire does not always mean evil. The Qur'an wants to show a more merciful God and understanding his people and this could be why he wants more followers and does not punish people because he to is human and makes mistakes and can better understand what is going on.
I think Satan is a fallen angel. I say this because in the mycourses pdf of the story of Satan in the Qur'an, in 7:11, and in 15:31, and in every other variation, we see this.-"...Then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrated; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who bow down." this to me says that he is an angel. Although that is nothing to say that Satan didn't become a Jinn. There are works I found where as soon as Satan/Iblis refused to bow down, he became a Jinn. It defiantly brings up an interesting question though, because angles are supposed to be able to sin. So is Satan a Jinn? Possibly. But he defiantly starts off as an angel.
How does the Quran deal with Christians and Jews? The Abrahamic religions all share similar stories and characters but the three religions diverged on separate paths because of different interpretations of scriptures. The Quran unambiguously states that Islam is the one true faith and following Allah is the only path. It acknowledges the existence of Jesus Christ but to characterize him as the “Messiah, son of Mary” (The Feast, pg. 75) is to defy God. Christians are also said to have defied God by allowing each other to do wrong and ally themselves with other disbelievers. “How terrible is what their souls have stored up for them! God is angry with them and they will remain tormented.” (The Feast, pg. 75). The Quran also says to not make an ally with a Jew or Christian because this makes you a non-believer. According to the Quran, Allah is seen as the one and only God, and all disbelievers seem to be doomed to eternal suffering. Surahs 109 and 112 concisely summarize that Allah is the one true God.
How does Satan in Job compare to Satan in the Islamic tradition? Because Satan is not explicitly mentioned in Genesis, the story of Job can be used to compare Satan in Christian tradition against Satan in the Islamic tradition. An obvious similarity between the two is that Satan’s character is “evil” and that he is intended to cause mischief. In Job, Satan challenges Job’s loyalty to God by stripping away everything he holds dear to him. In the Quran, Satan pledges to do wrong to human beings, “O my lord, because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong.” (Surah 15, verse 39). In both instances, Satan tries to puncture the loyalty that human beings have for God. However, in Job, we only get a limited view of Satan and his overarching goals. In the Quran, because Satan doesn’t bow down to Adam, we get the basis for why Satan chose his path of putting human beings in the wrong.
How does the structure of the Quran compare to the structure of the Bible when we read the two texts as literature? When we read the Bible as literature, it makes sense as a story because it is written in chronological order. It is clear to follow family lineages and progression of events. On the other hand, the Quran is not chronological order. In my opinion, at least from the assigned texts we read, I found it more difficult to read the Quran as literature. It seemed to be a very religious text, often reiterating the same ideas over and over. Mainly, that there is only one right path and one almighty God to worship. That being said, the Quran did make more sense of Genesis to me because it explained why the devil wished to tempt Adam and Eve. I am left wondering what the snake in Genesis was and what its true intention was.
I feel that God in the Qur'an dealt with Jews in Christians in a seemingly harsh way. Obviously in the Qur'an there is only one God, Allah, and that no one else should worship any other God. There are some examples where Allah can seem unforgiving to non believers. However, I feel like Allah wanted to give Jews and Christians a reason to switch to Islam. An example of this is on Pg. 70 in The Feast, where he almost mocks Jews and Christians by asking them why their God punishes them for sins, even though they are a part of His creation.
The comparison of Satan in Job was interesting. In both versions of Job it is really Satan's duty to cause havoc on Job and to undermine God's authority. At least in the Qur'an we are able to understand why Satan has chosen to disobey God, which like you said is because Satan would not bow down to Adam.
The structure of the Qur'an is very different from any other type of book I have ever read. Even though it has shares many of the same stories as the Bible, they are presented differently through the surahs. I kind of like how the Qur'an is broken up because it seems like each chapter has a certain meaning that is trying to be put across.
I think it is very important to distinguish that the Qur’an was not intended to be literature, where the Bible clearly is. It is even called The Good Book. The Bible has had centuries to be developed, edited and revised. Details in the Bible have been added, removed, rearranged and expanded to suit the need of whatever branch of Christianity is going to be using it, or whatever the political climate of the time is. The Bible even has 2 versions – the Old and New primarily because many thought the Old was too violent and didn’t work for the culture of the time. The Bible is being rewritten all the time. While the Qur’an may suffer in English because of translation issues I believe having its primary source be from an oral tradition is very important. It must be recited perfectly, with no deviation. In Muslim culture expert retellers are stars and can become famous. In Christianity the preachers who become rich and famous are those that can choose certain texts and passages and tailor it to their audiences.
The Qur’an and Genesis; how are they similar? Without any background knowledge of The Qur’an, it was surprising how many similarities there were between the two. Essentially, both pieces of literature tell the same story of creation and the beginning. Given the many different circumstances and situations between both texts, most likely due to the differences in translation, both works share similar events as well as characters. One of the first similarities I came across was the concept of the forbidden tree. Although they have different names (Tree of Knowledge and Tree of Eternity), the general theory is the same; do whatever you please, but don’t eat the fruit from the tree. What about Satan? Nowhere in Genesis is there mention of Satan. In Genesis, there is mention, however, of a serpent; which we can only assume resembles Satan. In The Qur’an, Satan plays a large role in the story. Satan, made of fire, believes he is better and greater than Allah, or God, because Allah is made of clay. In The Qur’an, Satan is the one who entices Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. In The Bible, Eve is the one who entices Adam to eat the fruit. Many researchers can argue that “evil” stems from women due to the influence women seem to have on bad things. I do not necessarily believe this to be true; I advocate more on the side that women can be more persuasive, influential and more likely to stand their ground than men in this story, not so much evil. I found it interesting how women were portrayed in this story. It was shocking to me how much power and influence they had on the story. Writing style and structure? I felt as though The Qur’an was easier to read than The Bible. The Bible was much easier to follow because it was in chronological order, but I felt as though the writing was easier to understand in The Qur’an. I believe the reason is because, having read The Bible first, I had background knowledge of the stories and how they are supposed to be read, in terms of the order it is written.
You make an interesting point about the role of women in Genesis. The concept of the "original sin" has given women a negative connotation not only in Genesis but also in the entire BIble. However, I am not sure that Eve was intended to be seen as an influential and powerful character in Genesis. I have not read the Bible in its entirety but, from what I have gathered, men seem to play the most prominent roles in the stories. Again, I do not know everything about the Bible but its content leads me to believe that it resembles a patriarchal society. Everyone can have their own interpretation about the contents of the Bible but I personally believe that Eve was meant to be portrayed negatively in Genesis. Yes, she was influential in the story, but her role was disobeying God. The Bible explicitly states that defying God has severe consequences. Therefore, I think that the sexist interpretation about Eve and women in Genesis is more likely.
I also found the writing in the Quran easier to understand. From the excerpts we had, it was relatively clear what the writings were trying to express. I mentioned in my own blog response that I also felt the Quran felt less like a story than the Bible. In the Bible, everything is in chronological order and it is easy to follow. However, some of the language and family lineages can be confusing at times. I think that the Quran is clearly written but, for some reason, I felt it more difficult to read it solely as literature.
I agree with Kelsey Davidson’s response. I did not have any background knowledge of the Qur’an either so reading the Bible first helped me understand the Qur’an surah better. I found that the Bible was easier to read and follow than the Qur’an. Some lines in the Qur’an can be easily confused and misinterpreted. So through different translations the surah can have different meanings. I was surprised of the similarities and differences between God and Allah. I was especially surprised of how forgiving and merciful Allah was compared to God.
I found it fascinating that in the creation story of the Qur'an Adam takes on just as much blame as Eve does, not burdening her with the sole responsibility. In the Qur'an it is said “Our Lord we have wronged our own souls and if You forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your mercy, we shall certainly be lost.” The emphasis here is on the "we." In Genesis in the Bible, Adam is quick to place blame on Eve and that she tempted him to eat the fruit of the tree. In a culture widely regarded for their supposed mistreatment of women, I found it shocking to compare the two versions. It goes to show you that preconceived notions gleaned through media, popular belief, and propaganda should not be trusted.
Noah and his Ark...how do they differ?
In the Bible Noah is thought of by God as one of his true followers and someone that God found worthy of walking beside him in contrast to the dismay He felt when looking at what the rest of humanity had become. God himself went to Noah and told him to ready himself and his family and to gather two of each kind of creature for the new world. In this story Noah's family is spared and the important thing to note is that God comes to him and warns him.
In Islam, Noah speaks praise unto God to the people and tries to warn them that if they do not revere Allah and worship Him as the one true God then they would face certain punishment. Allah is a supreme being that never directly speaks to Noah but that Noah was inspired by Him. He also does not spare Noah's family and says that his wife is evil and "false to their husbands."
I too, found it interesting how women are essentially equalized in the Qur'an. I noticed that the emphasis was on "we" and not so much one person. I also found it interesting how a culture so strongly religious and involved in their faith, could almost go against what is in their Holy Book and treat women the way they do. I agree that the assumption that all women are treated poorly in the Islam culture is a terrible misconception based on media and propaganda and that nothing that is broadcasted for the public can be taken seriously or believed so easily without further investigation. The story of Noah and his Ark, for me, demonstrates very strongly, how much power and strength lies in God. I believe that the Old Testament in the Bible is all about demonstrating the power of God, not so much the beauty and divine power. In the Qur'an, Allah never warned Noah about the troubles coming his way. In this respect, it can be argued that Allah in the Qur'an is not as good or divine as the God in the Bible. I agree with your responses and they made me think about different aspects of both stories that I had never thought of before.
I also found it interesting how the qur'an treats men and women equally when the fruit is eaten in the garden of eden. I would not have assumed that Adam would assume blame with Eve, probably due to preconceived notions of how women are treated in the islamic culture. The differences in the story of Noah in the bible and qur'an also grabbed my attention. In the bible Noah does what he can and appears to truly care for people. In the qur'an Noah seems to have lost hope for humanity due to the fact that they did not listen to him. He proceeds to play devil's advocate and tells god to destroy everyone. This is a huge contrast between one character.
I feel that many people believe that women were mistreated in the Qur'an simply because of how women are treated in some places in the Middle East. I was also surprised when Adam and Eve took equal blame for eating the forbidden fruit. I feel that this is a very important distinction from the Bible. However, the Qur’an is not completely free from sexism but also the way some people choose to act should not be indicative of the religion they follow. The differences in the story of Noah also intrigued me. The fact that Noah's family is saved in the Bible and not in the Qur’an is an interesting and rather important distinction about non-believers. It shows that non-believers will not find salvation with Allah in the afterlife. What I find most interesting is that the same stories are in both religious texts yet there are some key differences between them that should be acknowledged.
How does the creation of mankind differ in the Qur’an than it does in the Bible? The way in which mankind is created in the Qur’an is significantly different than in the bible. For one instance, in the Bible god created Adam in his own image. While in the Qur’an god created mankind from clay. One question that I had after reading the bible was that since mankind is hardly perfect, and can be fallible; does that mean God is also, since man was created in god’s image? While in the Qur’an man was created from clay and was not made in god’s image, therefore I can give greater consideration to the possibility that, in the Qur’an, god is infallible.
How is the status of women different in the Qur’an than in the Bible? While reading portions of the Qur’an, I noticed how the role of women was fairly different than what I had read in the Bible. In the Bible God made women out of one of Adam’s ribs, while in the Qur’an God made women clay along with man. To me creating man and women at the same time, instead of one before the other, equalizes them. Furthermore, in the Qur’an, when Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit; Adam does not blame Eve as he does in the Bible. From what I have read so far, the Qur’an puts men and women on a more equal status, both with god and each other, than does the Bible.
What is Satan’s role in the Qur’an? In the Qur’an Satan is a being made from fire. When God orders the angels to prostrate themselves for man Satan, Iblis, refuses on the basis that a being, made of fire, such as he should not be forced to bow down before one made of clay and is sent to the underworld. After God has granted life to Man, Satan approaches Adam and seduces him into eating the Forbidden Fruit leading to their banishment from the Garden. In this portion I see Satan as a figure that is too proud to bow down to any he considers to be inferior to him. To me this is why Satan has such profound dislike for Adam and Eve, enough to have them banished from the Garden of Eden.
I also found the differences in the creation stories very interesting. I am uncertain of the significance of man being made from clay, but it definitely has a very different effect than man being created in God's image. I don't think the Bible was trying to say that God is fallible however. Rather, I understood the creation of Adam in God's image to mean God's physical image rather than his personality or intrinsic traits.
I was also surprised by the Qur'an's depiction of women. The creation of Adam and Eve as equals, the fact that Adam did not blame Eve, and God's equal blame on the two, were quite surprising to me. As someone whose understanding of Islam (until recently) came almost entirely from the news media, which likes to repeatedly comment on the poor state of women in some Islamic countries, I expected women in the Qur'an to be treated with less regard than they are in the Bible. Although I'm not sure that is possible, since women are portrayed so negatively in the Bible.
I was very interested in the story of Satan in the Qur'an. I was totally unaware of the Jinn race in the Qur'an. Aside from their different origins, I thought that the role of Satan in both texts was very similar, assuming that the serpent in Genesis is in fact Satan. Both seem determined to seduce mankind to do evil. Interestingly, while this is explained in the Qur'an through a dialogue between God and Iblis, Satan's reasoning is left vague in the Bible.
How do the depictions God in the Bible and the Qur’an differ?
There are many distinguishing features when comparing the two depictions of God in the Bible and the Qur’an. Both depictions of God want their followers to fear God and his power over them. Although the depiction of God in the Qur’an may seem more unforgiving due to the many times Allah has demanded fear in his powers, he was depicted as a more forgiving God. When comparing the depictions of the story of Cain and Abel, the Bible concludes the story with Cain being cursed, having to wander the Earth and have fruitless crops. God does not allow for Cain to recognize his sins, but in the Qur’an, Allah does not punish Cain. He allows Cain to come to realize that he has sinned, and after asking for forgiveness, Allah does not punish Cain. Another example of Allah being depicted as more forgiving is when speaking of humans who believe in other gods. Although both depictions of God would not suggest followers to believe in other gods, Allah is more lenient towards the non-believers. He states, “…whoever follows the guidance does so for his own benefit; whoever strays away from it does so at his own peril. You are not in charge of them.” (39:41) This is very different from the God in the Bible, who states that, “whoever sacrifices to any god, save the Lord only, shall be utterly destroyed.” (Ex. 22.20) Even with Adam and Eve, the events of the Qur’an are more forgiving than the events in the Bible. In the Qur’an, Adam and Eve ask for forgiveness, and they are given just that because they know the crime they have committed, but in the Bible, all of woman are cursed with the pain of childbirth, and also being born in considered the first sin.
Why does the God in the Qur’an seem to ask for more fear in Him than the God in the Bible?
These two depictions of God are very different, and although at first glace, Allah in the Qur’an is seen as a more fearsome God compared to the God in the Bible. He demands for fear in the Lord much more than the God in the Bible, but in my opinion, this is a form of tough love. Allah demands fear because he knows that if one fears Him, they will regret their sins, and they will also know of the crime they have committed. By knowing and regretting, these sinners will repent, and they will become better humans. And even though Allah demands more fear, he is more forgiving than the God in the Bible. In the many examples shown, Allah is depicted as a much less spiteful and vengeful God. He forgives the people who understand their misdoings, and he allows humans to learn their lessons. The God in the Bible instead does not try to teach the humans lessons, but rather he spites them when they do wrong. He curses humans who commit sins, and He demands for the destruction of the people who do not believe in only the Lord.
I noticed that the Biblical God is more obsessed with obedience, killing Lot's wife for looking back at the destruction of her home, rather than leaving her in the city to be destroyed. Your opinion that Allah is more forgiving is uncommon, but well supported. You could further support this point by adding that Satan takes a more active and explicit role in leading humankind astray in the Quran, suggesting further that Allah understands that those who sin are not entirely to blame.
I can see the point you are trying to make and see how you came to the conclusion that the God of the Qur'an desires fear more than the God of the bible. There are some factors that I would like to point out, expressing a different form of interpretation. one is that in the passage from the Qur'an that you quoted, regarding how those who didn't follow the scriptures did so at their own peril, I would like to point out that the passage does not specifically mention punishment. What the passage does is mention that whoever does not follow the scripture "does so at their own peril", which I interpret as meaning if you do not follow the scripture you take the risk of falling to sin. So it does not necessarily mean that if you do not follow the scripure you will earn god's wrath, or something else along that line.
I do agree with you when you speak about the God of the Qur'an being more forgiving than the god of the bible. When you speak of why Allah demands fear more than the god of the bible, I would like to add some other interpretations for consideration. For instance I think that Allah uses fear so that not only will sinners repent, but so that others will have a greater desire to not sin. For the most part I understand your argument and agree with what you have said. My desire here was to point out some possibilities that might not have been considered.
Before reading the Qur’an, where was my head? The Qur’an is definitely a book I approached with an open mind. At this point in my life, I am figuring out for myself what I believe in, so learning about all sorts of religions has been a sort of hobby for me. I have been approaching each religious literature I come across with the mindset that the next one could be the one that calls to me, and makes me believe. This is the mindset that I used when reading the Qur’an. I wanted to find something in it that I could believe in. This causes me to be a little bit biased in my reading, as all I am looking for is something I can believe. As a born and raised Roman Catholic, I already know much about the God spoken of in Genesis and the Bible. This also caused difficulty in being unbiased and critical in my reading. Compare God within both texts. In my opinion, Allah, the God of the Qur’an, seemed all about punishment and destruction. This I find interesting, as God was like that in the Bible, too. He was claimed to be forgiving, but if his worshippers for one second questioned him or his existence, he would punish them. This does not sound forgiving to me. In fact, the God in each piece of literature seems almost immature and young. When he does not have his way, he has a tantrum and destroys his creations. Then he practically starts over, using what is left. The best example of this is the story of Noah and his ark. When the people did not listen, God had Noah build an ark and put certain creatures on it. Then he destroyed the rest of the creatures who wouldn’t listen. If someone were to say God was a human like us, he would have to be a child who is used to having his way. At least, that is what some of his decisions and punishments look like to me.
It was good for you to come into reading the Qur'an with an open mind. When thinking about the demographics of the students of Geneseo, I came into this class thinking most other students would have a Christian mindset, and would not be accepting of certain other, more foreign ideas. I agree with what you are saying in the most part. Both depictions of God seem to demand fear, and when humans seem to challenge God's power, He kills them. But although both Gods do act in this manner, I feel that God needs to assert his power in order to control what man does to the Earth. He needs to show no mercy sometimes if He wants to be able to teach man the values that the Bible and the Qur'an preach. These values are what each religion believes is the "correct" way to live life, and in order to have people internalize these values, God must demonstrate his power to stop people otherwise.
God in both books does tend to be of a think first ask questions later sort. That is why I and you see him as such an immature character. Neither asks questions of those he punishes and unfortunately he asks for everything his followers can give him. He wants to be their entire world. The very concept of which is strange because he makes a world for humans to live on. Why would he want to split a humans focus. If humans are supposed to be less intelligent than God, how can he expect a person to be different then all the stimulus that their experience makes them. God is the least tangible of these. It makes him seem foolish to require so much.
I liked what you said about having an open mind when starting to read an kind of religious book like The Qur'an. It's a great idea because it helps to avoid any biased views or feelings. I did agree with what you said about God being big with punishment in both The Bible and The Qur'an. Also, how both God in The Bible and Allah in The Qur'an both want to seem so forgiving yet if you make just the simplest mistake, they're right after you with punishment. I also think they are acting childish and immature. If they're so high and mighty, why do they act so juvenile? Why not act like the higher beings that they are? Also, excellent reference example using Noah. I completely agree with you there.
I like the fact that you came to the "Qur'an" with an open mind; I tried to do this as well, but the similar stories reminded me of the "Bible" and brought each biblical story to mind. This allowed comparing them to be easier for me, but it also meant that the things I remembered might actually be from the "Bible" or possibly just information I have learned throughout my childhood. I also thought that both God and Allah were destructive and highly immature. This is always interesting to read how violent and angry, a merciful and glorious god can be. I do feel that Allah was more merciful and understanding then the God of the "Old Testament." The references to Noah is perfect to show the destruction that these gods caused. I also thought that names were used fairly sparingly compared to "The Old Testament" and that the "Qur'an" concentrated more on reinforcing and sending messages to their readers.
I too came with an open mind when reading the Qur'an. I was also raised as Roman Catholic and I sometimes find it hard to be unbiased. It is difficult for me to analyze these works as pieces of literature and think of them critically. It is definitely different approaching The Bible as literature. I agree with your idea about Allah in The Qur'an being mostly about punishing. I feel as though in both books, the main message the reader is supposed to get from all this is the fact that God is extremely powerful and nothing else is supposed to compare to that. One way to demonstrate this is by creating situations for God to react to, utilizing his power. I agree with your statement of an immature God. That is certainly a different way of looking at the situation.
Why do we see the Devil as we do? “Western” society sees the Devil, or Satan, as an evil supernatural force that must be fought against, a struggle we must overcome. This view results in games like Diablo and in movies like Devil, where instead of leading people astray from their path of righteousness, the Devil is either killing or needs to be killed. Of the passages we've read so far, there is little mention of Satan, and no more examples of Satan killing people than God (far fewer examples, actually, but that’s another subject). In the Quran, Satan seemed more like a mischievous con-man than the ultimate supernatural evil he is today. Satan, Hebrew for “the opposer,” didn't do much opposing. People seem to prefer to define themselves not by what they are, but by what they are not. American politics today is a two party system not because there are only two points of view, but because it allows for discourse to devolve into ad hominem attacks. The 2000’s were defined by fear of and hostility toward terrorists/Muslims. For decades after World War II American society pivoted around not being Communist and beating the Russians at everything. Part of the rationale behind the Nazi party’s policies was that Germany had been taken by foreigners and needed to be taken back. From this history it is safe to say that Americans, if not humans in general, are the opposers, not Satan. As globalism and understanding of other cultures is growing, we’re running out of scary people to fear. We've conquered the world, in that respect, resulting in a need for an adversary that is not of this world. Satan appears as an adversary when we lack living beings to feel persecuted by. In 1984 George Orwell made sure to include to include that Oceania is in a constant state of war, because having something to oppose makes us proud. In Lord of the Flies the boys invented a threat because it felt unnatural not to perceive a struggle with something (they came from a country fighting a war, after all). Interestingly enough, this struggle caused them to change their civilized and “moral” ways to more savage and “immoral” ways. Satan was portrayed as trying to lead people astray from the path of righteousness in a time where people already had enough struggles to concern themselves with. They could feel accomplished simply by believing they hadn't done anything wrong, and if they did sin, they could put some of the blame on the fact that a Biblical entity was pressuring them. Today we have different needs: in thrillers we need something powerful that can’t be defeated through natural or technological means, and in violent video games we need something that everyone can hate without objection. Disturbing as it may seem, we've gotten so good at creating devils for ourselves we can even recreate ones we've already made.
This is such an intriguing breakdown of the way Satan is seen. The fact that the devil has killed much less that God has, yet the devil is seen as the one entity humans need to avoid and dispose of. Seeing Satan as a mere invention of the people is a very interesting point of view. It is true, in my opinion, that humans tend to invent adversaries. I know that I myself create arguments sometimes, simply for the sake of arguing, or to have something to distract myself from other things. This is something that is true of many people, and could be the cause of the creation of an entity like the devil. In doing this so often, people tend to get used to having someone to be against. Once this adversary goes away, people have to find another to replace it. In your example of Lord of the Flies, the boys are so used to being surrounded by war at home, that, as you said, they created a threat to fight. Satan is also a great excuse for doing wrong. I wouldn't say that the devil is an acceptable excuse, but it is used often. You make many fantastic points about the way humans view and create the devil.
I agree with what you are saying here Grant. Your question is one that, at first glance, is one we would not think too much about. We have been brought up in a society that believes that the Devil is defined by the ultimate evil, the one that is trying to destroy us all. Being a non-religious person myself, I still know and understand this definition for the Devil as the default one, and questioning this definition is key to understanding how our society is what it is now. Your point of us needing something to oppose is important in this understanding of how we've come to define the Devil, it gives us a reason to appoint such a skewed definition to a character most Americans have read about. By changing the definition of the Devil, it allows people who are both religious and non-religious to put the ultimate label of evil on to those who we are opposing.
Who was more terrifying, Qur'an God or the Old Testament God?
While this may seem insane, it seemed to me that the Qur'an God was more vengeful than the Old Testament God. A large part of this opinion definitely stems from the repetition of the words "Hellfire" and "Hereafter" it seemed that Qur'an God really distilled the threat of eternal damnation into Mohammed's teachings. The lack of narrative also played a part in making Qur'an God seem a bit more nonsensical than Old Testament God. In the Old Testament, there was always a small (sometimes microscopic) bit of justification of God's smiting, but the Qur'an God would do it to just about anyone. Being reminded that he is a merciful God only scared me a little bit more, he seemed like an old Italian gangster who loved you, but had no issue whacking you. I seem to always be doing these religious readings through the lens of finding out what would control me more, because that is what I believed was the main objective through religion. Qur'an God seemed more controlling and ready to damn me to Hellfire, so I would have to say he was the most controlling and terrifying.
What are the stances on murder?
The Old Testament has plenty of murder in it, in fact the near annihilation of life on Earth is in it. But the writings clearly stated that the murdering of another man by a man is wrong, through the ten commandments and the story of Cain and Abel. In the sura Table Spread, the issue of murder is addressed. The same general notion is laid out, but with the caveat that murder is allowed if it is in retribution or "they are spreading corruption through the land". Reading the second part of the sentence sent chills through me. How general of a statement, it could be construed in any way! Perhaps it could have been translated differently, but the ability for this sentence to justify any killings is very scary. This is a very delicate issue due to the conflict with radical Muslim groups, but this line was genuinely bone chilling separated from that issue. Were some of the stories just revised new editions? In the Story of Satan in the Qur'an, the different interpretations of Genesis seem too good to be true. The authors went back to the original story, and realized that the serpent could probably be the devil, to round out the whole Devil vs. God theme in religion. The story of creation with Iblis was a lot more captivating then the fall of Adam and Eve without it, so once again it seemed that things were spiced up for that sake. Everything fit to perfectly for it to not have been a well thought out revision to the story of creation. But it also could have been divine inspiration, I would not like to fully discredit any beliefs.
While your assessment that Allah is more terrifying than the Biblical God is supported by the skeptics' annotated bible online, I don't think it is fair to bring up radical Muslim groups. Radicals of any religion are motivated by hate, and use whatever belief system they can to justify it. As for the references to Hell as "fire" in the Quran, Jesus refers to Hell as a place with lakes of brimstone and gnashing of teeth, and he is considered one of the more forgiving characters in Christianity. Putting the fear of Hell into the followers is understandable, as they believe it to be a place for eternal damnation and torment. http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/bible_quran.html
I agree with these comments, the differences between the two portrayals of the Lord is surprising. The Qur'an is confusing when one ayat is focused on how Allah is a merciful and forgiving god, which is contrasted when the next ayat is focused on Allah condemning people to burn. The stances on important things like the the Lord's will, murder, and the accuracy of old and new versions of the same stories seem to be confusing between Genesis and the Qur'an. God and his actions seem extreme in both the Old Testament and the Qur'an, both seem to be willing to destroy when angered.
What is the general policy towards Jews, Christians, and other religious beliefs in the Qur’an? That is how are these faiths referred to, and how are followers of the Qur’an instructed to interact with these peoples?
Contrary to what many people with no experience with the Qur’an might think, this text does not provide a clear picture of how these other world religions should be viewed. In fact, I found it to be quite contradictory on several occasions and I was left wondering if this ambiguity may have actually been intentional. My confusion centered on the concept of the People of the Book, an idea I picked up on that made much more sense after an in-class explanation. These people are defined as Jews and Christians, religions that share many of the same narratives in their central religious text and therefore are tolerated. However, the Qur’an doesn’t always seem to portray that. Take Surah 5 for example. Starting at Ayah 51 the Qur’an indicates that Believers should not be “friends” with Jews nor Christians, and that they are “wrongdoers.” These groups are later collectively referred to as infidels. However, starting at Ayah 65, it states that converts from these religions will be accepted and pardoned; it goes on to say that “…those who follow the Jewish Faith. Sabaeans and Christians…shall have nothing to fear or regret.” This is a clear contradiction that I could not explain, and this is only one instance of many where it is seen.
How may the translation of the Qur’an, as well as the original Arabic in which it is written, have an effect on our critical interpretation of the text? The cultural interpretation? Without having any experience with the Qur’an, my initial reaction to the language and phrasing used in this translation was that it is very plain and straightforward. It seems as if the text is trying to be as terse as possible. However, this does not mean that it is dry or lacking, as I did come across several passages that I found to be emotive. This brief language may lead readers to think the text is overly simple when it really has meaning masked by the translation. Surah 112 is a great example of this as it is simple but also meaningful, and the message portrayed in those four Ayahs is crucial for the Islamic faith. Also, the plain nature of the text could have cultural consequences. Think of the New Testament’s Commandment against murder, “Thou shalt not kill.” The Qur’an actually goes into more detail than the Bible on this subject (5.32). If we, as a society, followed this verse instead of the Bible, issues such as capital punishment and abortion would be much less of a philosophical discussion; it would be grounded in a fundamental text.
Is God in the Qur’an different from the Old Testament God we encountered last week? If so, in what way?
The God of the Qur’an and the God of the Old Testament are two completely different figures, even though they are the same entity. In the Qur’an, and the New Testament for that matter, God is a forgiving God. He is ready to forgive sins against Him and others, and is willing to grant an afterlife in paradise for those whom he favors. This, then, brings up the main difference between the New Testament and the Qur’an, the lack of Original Sin and therefore Jesus as a savior. The Old Testament God, on the other hand, is a vengeful being that strikes out on His creation whenever they are in the wrong. The Old Testament God wants nothing to do with salvation.
Regarding your first thought, I feel very similar. There was a lot of ambiguity and contradictions regarding the followers of other Abrahamic religions. Jesus, Moses, and all of those great chosen guys are clearly cited and respected by the author of the Qur'an, but there are some verses that are a bit more "snippy" with the other religions. Even if any Muslims truly believed that everything Jews and Christians believed were wrong, they couldn't because it would clearly falsify their religion simultaneously. On another note, Professor Akman's point of the issues at the time of the writing of the Qur'an definitely make some of the contradictory verses more understandable. In a way I enjoyed the direct and succinct language of the Qur'an. If there was a rule being set out, it was clearly instructed, and not have to be interpreted out of a story of rapists being annihilated in their town by balls of fire. In regards to the terseness, I can't really say anything to the flow of speaking the Qur'an, but I can definitely see the lack of beauty in this English version compared to an Arabic one. Since Muslims cannot depict Mohammed (or really any person if I remember correctly), the work that went into calligraphy of these passages is magnificent, so some of the appeal of the Qur'an is lost there.
While the God of the Qur'an may be more peaceful, the writing of the book is more unsettling. It is easy to not put yourself in the situations that the wrathful Old Testament God puts the humans of that time through, as compared to breaking a simple tenant of Islam and being reminded of the "Hellfire" and terrible "Hereafter" you'll spend eternity screaming in. That constant reminder in the text made Qur'an God come off as bipolar and ready to flip his mercy any minute, but perhaps repenting to him afterwards would change that fate.
In preparing for this week’s readings I perused a few different translations of the text. The Oxford edition that was suggested is not, from what I gathered, the ‘definitive’ version. In fact I could not find an English translation that was considered 100%, absolutely accurate. In the Kindle marketplace I read reviews of many of the translations, and read samples from 4 or 5 versions. The translations, and their attached accuracy was in great debate. Just from a cursory reading of a few sura’s the intent of the translator became clear, and the differences were extreme. One version of the text had three separate translations listed side by side to compare the differences. My question is how can there be so many versions, and does this not lead to the current state of confusion regarding the Qu’ran in the western world? I saw many of the same sentiments in a number of the Qu’ran translations. The translation I chose to read (by Dr. Muhammed Mushin Khan says in the Second Surah) “if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur’aan) to our Slave (Muhammed peace be upon him), then produce a surah the like thereof… but if you do not, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire..”. :Lines like this are repeated throughout, in a translation by a Muslim (for Peace Vision, ironically). It is hard to read this line and think it does anything other than set apart distinct differences, the like of which could only mean violence and eternal separation. I find it specifically interesting that in the translation Fire is constantly capitalized, which to me appears to make direct reference to the Jinn Ibis who is seen as Satan, and in the Qu’ran is made from fire. This is not the only translation to have similar sentiments. The Oxford version does seem to promote more the peaceful aspects, at least in the translations we have read, but the violence and absolutism still exists. The Koran seems to depend very much on the translation, especially since there is no “official” written verse. The Bible does not seem to have the same problems as the Qu’Ran, superficially at least. Even though the Bible has been in the dominant English language for centuries, and has even been standardized (The ESV) there are many different versions and focuses of the Bible. Slight differences in translations from whatever the original source was has led to holy wars for years, even if now we seem to be relatively at peace with Christianity. Within the last year I attended a baptism at a southern Baptist fundamental church, where much of the sermon was directly from the(ir) Bible and definitively anti-semitic. The Bible, though has centuries on the Qu’ran as far as inundation into culture and editions. We are still, as a world, learning to read and accept the Qu’ran. Translations will always be debated, especially with the knowledge of the 4 students of Mohammed being so disparate. Perhaps Islam needs the same time that Christianity has had to develop before we really know how to translate the words of Mohammed.
On a side note I found this piece of beauty in Yahoo Answers: Why do muslims hate / make fun of other religions great figures when islam says prophets are sent all over? well according to islam, prophets were sent worldover. right ?
also its wrong to insult prophets . right? • 2 months ago Best Answer - Chosen by Asker The very existence of Islam is an insult to all religions and all people. How many times are non-Muslims insulted in the Quran - called evil, the worst of creatures, compared to dogs, etc? How many times is violence against other people advocated in the Quran? Too many! Islam insults Jesus. Islam insults the female prophets of God by denying them, so they don't respect or follow all prophets.
Islam is not even a religion. It's a deen. There's a difference. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20121219222119AANHJEr
It is amazing that even within this small forum, with a seemingly innocuous question there can be so many DEFINITIVE answers. People that seem willing to fight, and apparently unwilling to listen. From reading just a few chosen surahs I can see how easily the book can be turned to any ideal if one chooses the right passages or translation, but is this really any different from the Bible?
It is interesting that you bring up the idea of translation disparities, as it is something I considered in my blog response as well. I chose not to focus on this idea as much in post, but it was definitely something I had in the back of my mind the whole time I was reading. Similar to you I found what appear to be different perspectives on the same information, at times even appearing as a third text, similar but different, than both the Bible and Qur’an. Also, the paper version I have of the Qur’an is different from the Oxford Edition used in class. I borrowed it from a friend who bought it for a Humanities class with a different professor. The Surahs have been close but, in my opinion, simplified. This is hard to describe without an example, but when compared to the Oxford Edition and the online postings it is almost as if it has been stripped down to its base meanings. Worth noting, as well, is that my translation is entitled The Koran with no mention of the other spelling. As you said, these differences absolutely contribute to confusion when reading this text and comparing it to others. As well as confusion, however, I feel the translational differences lead to general misinterpretation. This may be more obvious in the case of a Humanities class where mostly everyone is new to the Qur’an, but consider that idea in a room full of people who base their religious beliefs on this text. While Christianity has different interpretations (think Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, etc.), at least it’s the same text. I think this idea, at least in part, makes it much harder for non-muslims or those unfamiliar with Islamic traditions to understand this text/religion.
Charles Caplan How does the Qur’an advise its followers to treat the followers of other types of Abrahamic religions such as Jews and Christians? There is conflicting and contradictory thoughts on the followers of other Abrahamic traditions in the Qur’an, Jews and Christians are referred to as “People of the Book” meaning that they follow teachings of the Lord known as Allah in Arabic. There seems to be two different ways that the Qur’an views these people, one is that they are following some of Allah’s teaching and if they live a just life then “on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” (5:69), implying that their belief in the Lord and righteous lifestyle is enough for them to be considered fine in the context of Islam. Although, the Qur’an also tells these people that there is a new book and that they need to obey its teachings to be on the correct path (5:16). Other parts of this text go as far as saying that the teaching or “covenants” made with Jews and Christians are now either not being practiced or not as important as the new teachings of Islam(5:12-5:14). These passages seem to be saying that Jews and Christians have fallen into a unjust or even evil pattern by either ignoring the teachings they received from Allah or by forgetting their duty to the lord, and one ayat goes so far as to ominously warn that “And soon Allah will show them what it is they have done” (5:14). What significant differences can be seen between the scriptures of Genesis in the Old Testament and the stories of the Qur’an? Here there is a huge difference between the two texts, despite the fact that they are supposedly telling the same story. Adam and Eve in the Garden is an extremely important part of any Abrahamic religion because it explains how mankind committed the transgression against the Lord. In the Qur’an the being known as Satan or a heavenly spirit known as Iblis (7:11) tempted the first man and woman to eat of the forbidden tree (7:20). In this story Satan is driven by his contempt for Adam as a lesser being (7:12) and wishes to show Allah this by tempting him away from the righteous path (7:17). This is a tale of jealousy on the part of Iblis, this jealousy causes conflict between Satan and Allah resulting in an evil spirit that wants to tempt man and create his downfall. This is in contrast to Genesis where the story is not of a spiteful spirit, but rather it is of man and woman being tempted by a crafty serpent to eat of the forbidden tree. Here the difference is most defined, the Qur’an portrays man as being tricked by a jealous and spiteful spirit who wants to prove that Adam is an inferior being, whereas, Genesis shows man tricked by a crafty serpent who seems to have no motive or feelings towards God or man. The Genesis story seems to show that there naturally evil in the world and that man must resist it in order to avoid the wrath of God. In contrast, the Qur’an story seems to portray Satan as responsible for evil, man is tempted by the deeds of an angry spirit and led away from the path of righteousness. What is the significance of the way the text is structured in The Qur’an and what does this mean for the interpretation of Islam? In the Qur’an Allah is portrayed not only extremely powerful and omnipotent but also forgiving and merciful to his creations. The way the text is structured in the Qur’an tells much about how Allah should be regarded by the followers of Islam, one passage gives an example of this “1. Say: He is Allah, the One; 2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4. And there is none like unto Him.” (112:1-112:4). This surah shows that Allah is regarded as the one true god and that no being in creation can rival his power and authority in Islam. The use of words that describe Allah as having these kinds of powers and qualities give the followers of Islam a definite path to what they believe will be the way to appease the lord is to follow these teachings.
I think the major contradictions are coming in translations, and usage of the words Christian or Jew. It says in the Qur’an that on the day of judgement Muslims, Jews and Christians alike who take refuge in Allah shall find their way to heaven. (2:4). In all translations the text makes a distinction between those that are truly followers of Allah from those who merely pretend. Those that are on the “Right Path” will be allowed into heaven, while those who engage in misdeeds and sin Allah will turn against. There is a great discrepancy here between Islam and Christianity. In Christian rules one must accept not just God, especially in the new testament, but Jesus as the son of god. If we look at the Qu’Ran as the new, new testament then perhaps this take sit even a step farther in promoting unity and a universal respect. I think when one thing becomes nonsensical, especially something as ingrained as the Bible people will naturally look for an explanation and a revision. The Bible is clearly not the work it originally was, or being read fully as intended. Islam undoubtedly falls into much the same fate with extremists of both anti-Christian and anti-Muslim beliefs. Nowhere in the Qu’ran (or Bible) have I found a passage that reads it is okay to take some of the teachings into practice and others not and still be all good in the end. Islam at least seems to make a place and variable okay for someone to call themselves Jewish or Christian and still reach the promised land as long as their life has been good and at the end they believe in God, whether he is called Allah, Yahweh or God. Now, polytheists, atheists or Buddhists… well those people are screwed.
You are right, in comparing the two books and explaining their differences. They both intend to tell the same story, but do it in a different way. What needs to be considering when reading them is the time in which they were written. The Old Testament is an older text than the Qu'ran is, so the Qu'ran modernized the stories for its time. The Qu'ran goes into more detail with the stories while the Old Testament is mush more simpler. You are also right in the contradictory writing in the Qu'ran about its perceptions on other Abrahamic religions such as Christianity and Judaism. The book writes as if that "the people of the book" should not respect the other religions, and it could even be said that it promotes to do harm to them. I believe this is taken a bit out of context, and that the true message is more to just leave the other religions be and stick to you're own beliefs as a follower of the Qu'ran. You are also right in saying that the Qu'ran is very straight forward on what path to follow as a reader. Allah is the one and almighty, and to please him and to not question him will lead you to all good things. The Qu'ran does a good job at showing people what is right and wrong while under the rule of Allah.
After reading parts of The Qur’an, I felt as though it was very complex and hard to understand, making it much less interesting than The Bible. I feel that The Bible uses much simpler terms and puts concepts in clearer meanings than the Qur’an. The Qur’an is also not put in chronological order. The events are somewhat jumbled around, unlike in The Bible where they are put in specific order from when they occurred. I personally did not like how events and characters were different in The Qur’an as compared to in The Bible. I feel that important things like the story of Adam and Eve and the creature known as Satan and events that occurred involving them should not be changed. They should stay consistent in every book that they’re included in. I realize some people may find it interesting that over time, these characters and their stories slightly change in books, I find it unethical. Our past is important and people shouldn’t go writing books that infringe on what really happened. It’s almost the same idea as someone just changing the laws that congress enacts. That is wrong and it should not happen. This is basically the same as people changing the ideas of what happened in The Bible and putting them in The Qur’an. Whether it’s a different belief or not, those are huge events that occurred in our past and they should stay the way they were originally put down onto paper. After reading parts of both The Bible and The Qur’an, I’ve found that The Bible is much more interesting and easier to understand. I do not recommend The Qur’an to someone who would like to learn about the creation of the Earth with Adam and Eve and the idea of Satan, although Satan was much more typical in The Qur’an than in The Bible because he wasn’t referred to as a serpent. This may be a racist view, but I feel that only Christians should read and understand The Bible as their sacred text, and only the Muslims should consider The Qur'an their sacred and holy text. Being a Christian myself, I would much rather read The Bible than The Qur'an, but that's just my opinion, of course.
A Different Point of View
ReplyDeleteReading the Old Testament one week and the Qu'ran the next week helps to compare the two with it fresh in your mind. They both tell the same stories (Adam and Eve, Noah's Arc, The Tower of Babel, etc.) but each has some differences in it that makes it fun to compare. One thing that stood out to me the most when reading is the image of Satan in the story of Adam and Eve. In the Old Testament, satan is never named or given a story. People argue that Satan is represented in the serpent that tricks Eve in to eating off the tree of knowledge, but it is never actually proven. The Qu'ran refers to the character in that story as Satan, who is made of fire and is a higher power than humans. Satan has a reason to want to deceive Adam and Eve because he feels that he should not have to bow down to Adam, who he feels is lesser than him (with Satan being made of fire and Adam of clay). This whole back round of Satan in the Qu'ran adds to the reader's perception. It helps the reader more understand why Satan (or just the antagonist) does what he does. In the Old Testament, there is no real reason, no explanation, it just happens. This makes the reader confused and left to make his or her own personal assumptions.
When reading "The Table Spread" section of the Qu'ran I felt a little on edge. Some of the writing made me feel a little uncomfortable with the idea of how these writings can be misinterpreted. Lines such as, "From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so We stirred up enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. (5:14)", are the kind of writing that leaves a bad message. From what I got, the Qu'ran is generally promoting people to do good and not to do bad. The idea to fear Allah and that he punishes those who promote bad should lead people in the right direction. But lines such as (5:14) can easily be misinterpreted by some people. It promotes hatred and diversification between two different religious groups, which is something that is not generally good. I feel that some people could read this the wrong way, and feel the need to do harm to Christians because they do not follow what they do. (5:14) is one line of others that does not give off the best message to people and it left me feeling a bit uncomfortable.
It is true that the differences between the stories in Genesis and the Qur'an are informative and surprising considering that these are supposed to be the same tale told by two different sources. This could give insight into the purposes of the texts and what the authors were thinking. It also raises the question of who wrote these stories, if both of these were accepted as the word of the Lord there would not be any inaccuracies or inconsistencies in the two stories. So what the critical reader would examine these texts as would be the stories of a group of people designed to give moral guidance and support for believers. It would seem that this is the real difference between the two texts both were written about a monotheistic god which was originally attributed to Abraham, but by different authors from different cultures.
DeleteThe second part about the way Qur'an refers to other followers of Abrahamic religions is often very troubling, especially when Jews and Christians are at times portrayed as evil or people who do not worship Allah correctly. Although there are other texts that portray Jews and Christians as "People of the Book" who share not only a common God but also common prophets and scriptures. It seems that the Qur'an portrays this relationship between Muslims and other religions both positive and negative.
I completely agree with what you said about the ideas from The Qur'an being misleading and hard to follow. I also feel that lines such as those can be misinterpreted by others reading it. I don't like how the ideas are almost conflicting with being good and bad. It's too confusing, do they want their people to be good people with good views and actions or bad people who also do good things. I find it very contradictory. I also agree that promotion of evil is never a good thing, even if it's involved with getting revenge with the enemy. This reading also made me a little bit uncomfortable to read, as well. I liked your closing sentence very much. It was very summarizing of the reading.
DeleteAs another new experience for me, while reading the Qu'ran I felt as if I would be able objectively read it without making judgement. I have to say however, I find the Qur'an much more intimidating in writing style than the Bible. While the Bible seems to consists of narratives that compose the supposed history of the time, the Qur'an seems to be almost written as a self-help book with the occasional anecdote. The Qur'an is very forward in saying that one should lead a life with the purposes of doing good deeds and should devote their lives to living a life that God would approve of. It is also very sure to let one know that if they stray off the path they can be forgiven but if they lose faith or did not have it at all, God knows and will punish them with eternal damnation. The writing style, I feel, makes the Qur'an more intimidating due to it using the word you which is supposed to refer to the prophet, but one can't help but get caught up and feel as if it is directed at the audience. It's a scary thought while reading lines such as "be mindful of God, for His punishment is severe" (The Feast 5:2). In both the Bible and the Qur'an the idea is obvious that one should fear God, but this point is certainly driven home many times throughout the passages of the Qur'an. It is confusing sometimes to figure out if the message in the Qur'an is to be a friend to people of other faith or that they are mischief makers. On one hand, "you who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians as allies: they are allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them..." (5:51), and on the other hand, "for those [Muslim]believers, the Jews, the Sabians, and the Christians--those who believe in God and the Last Day and do good deeds--there is no fear: they will not grieve" (5:69).
ReplyDeleteIt is obviously true that the Qu'ran, when compared to the Bible, is more intimidating. The writing style is a lot different, and the approach towards reading both the Qu'ran and the Bible is very different. It is difficult to read the Qu'ran without a certain judgement, especially after 9/11 and other events like that, but you must try to read it in light. I too, got a bit uncomfortable and intimidated while reading the lines you quoted and others similar to that. The idea that everyone should fear god and that his punishment is severe made me extremely uncomfortable. I feel that a God, as a higher power, should be pure good and not something to fear, but something to look up to and follow. It is hard to read statements like that and take it in a positive way. The Qu'ran also has many condescending lines, like the last two lines you quoted (5:51 and 5:69), which makes it even more difficult to interpret. What is needed to be done is to just read it and try hard to receive the positive message. The whole message of the Qu'ran is really to promote good among its followers. If they are in fear of God's wrath while promoting good, then I guess that is the way it must be. You must try hard to look past all that bothers you and try to take in the message as a whole, which promotes good among its followers.
DeleteI agree with you in your statements about Satan. Satan seems to be the villain in the three Abrahamic religions. He causes many issues for humans because he believes they are not superior. I believe there is significance in the Qu'ran stating that Satan is made of fire and humans from clay because you can use fire to heat clay and form things from it. Much like how Satan influences people into doing things. Allah warns mankind of Satan’s intentions but Satan seems to always be able to influence people. This brings up the question whether Satan is right about mankind being inferior. I believe that Satan ultimately represents man’s temptation. It’s a lot easier to ask for forgiveness for any act when you can claim a malevolent supernatural being was influencing you. I also agree with you that the bible does not reference Satan in it, and that people just assume that the snake is the Satan because he is the tempter in the story.
DeleteWhen I sat down to do the initial reading in the Qur’an, I too thought I would be able to read with an open mind. Unfortunately, as you experienced, I was not able to do so. However, my experience was quite different from yours. Content aside, while you found the writing style intimidating I found it to be simple and concise. I can understand how it can come off as intimidating in sort of a “this doesn’t mess around/mix words” kind of way, but I interpreted it as more of instructions to live a “proper” life. I took note of the use of “you” as well, and it took me through the first two Surahs to finally get comfortable with this terminology. By the end, however, I took it to give a personal message even if it is referring to the Prophet. This was just one of the issues that contributed to my difficulties in reading this text objectively.
DeleteJessica Bourdage Week 3
ReplyDeleteThe One, the Evil, and the Disbeliever
How is God portrayed in the Qur’an? How is it different from in the Bible?
In the Qur’an, Allah is portrayed as the One and only God. They believe that no one else can compare to God. The Jews and the Christians have it all wrong and are interpreting the scripture wrong. They don’t believe the messenger was telling the truth. In the Qur’an it says, “Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]; there is only One God.” (pg. 75, 5:73) Allah is also portrayed as forgiving and merciful. At the start of each Surah is “In the name of God, the Lord of Mercy, the Giver of Mercy.” God is the creator of everything and all knowing. He knows the secrets of the heart and is all powerful. While being the most powerful creator he is still very forgiving. “God forgives all sins. He is truly the Most Forgiving, the Most Merciful.” (pg. 299) Many times in the Qur’an they repeat statements such as this about God being forgiving and merciful. Like in the Bible, one should fear God. “Say ‘I fear the torment of a terrible Day if I disobey my lord.’”(pg. 296) During the Day of Resurrection, people will be judged and evildoers will suffer in the hereafter for what they have done and the good will be rewarded and kept safe by God.
How does the Qur’an describe Hell and Satan?
Hell in the Qur’an is also called the Fire. “Enjoy your ingratitude for a little while: you will be one of the inhabitants of the Fire.” (pg. 296) Any evildoer will be sent to the Fire. They will suffer more in the hereafter. “Enter the gates of Hell: there you will remain. How evil is the abode of the arrogant!” (pg. 300) Satan in the Qur’an happens to be called Iblis. He was made of fire which connects him to Hell which is also called the Fire. Iblis refused to bow down to God’s creation, man. He believes that he is better than Adam. Satan gets Adam and Eve eat from the Tree of Eternity. God tells them “Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?” (7.22)Satan is portrayed as the enemy of man in the Qur’an. “We made the Satans friends (only) to those without faith.” (7.27) Only those who have no faith are friends with Satan and “shall be companions of the Fire.” (2.39)
How are disbelievers handled?
“No one can guide those that God leaves to stray.” (pg. 297) There is no help for the disbelievers in the Qur’an. “So who could be more wrong than the person who invents a lie about God and rejects the truth when it comes to him? Is there not a home for the disbelievers in Hell?” (pg. 297) “If the disbelievers possessed all that is in the earth and twice as much again and offered it to ransom themselves from torment on the Day of Resurrection, it would not be accepted from them- they will have a painful torment. They will wish to come out of the Fire but they will be unable to do so: theirs will be a lasting torment.” (pg. 71) The disbelievers will suffer in Hell because God knows who believes and who doesn’t. If you do believe you will be rewarded and get into the Garden with its flowing streams. On page 70, it tells of Moses and his people. God tells them to enter the land but the people are afraid. Since they don’t believe, trust, and obey God, “The land is forbidden to them for forty years.” (5.26)In the story of Noah, Noah says “Lord do not leave a single disbeliever on the earth- if you leave them they will lead Your servants astray and beget only licentious disbeliever.” (pg. 392, 71.26) Noah wants God to drown all the disbelievers in the Flood. He only wants God to forgive the believers and for the evildoers to be sent to Hell. In the Qur’an any of “Those who have rejected the revelations of God will be the losers.”(pg. 299)
There was just a thought that went through my mind when reading your final question and statement. I find it funny that when it comes to God being a forgiving and merciful lord, he doesn't seem all that forgiving and merciful to the non-believers. I can understand why, but when I think about what Akman said in class about Muslim theologists believing that the Qur'an states that God made the three different religions on purpose and that if God had wanted to, He could have just made everyone Muslim, coudldn't one stand to believe that God made unbelievers too? Maybe God would forgive unbelievers as well that do good deeds and have a moral code, but just don't believe that their moral code is within a religious text.
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ReplyDeleteThe Qur’an and Genesis
ReplyDeleteThis was the first time I’ve ever read any piece of the Qur’an and there were several things that really distinguished it from Genesis to me. The first was the writing style was easier to read and understand in Genesis than in the Qur’an. Genesis was a narrative that was easily followed and was chronologically ordered for the most part. The Qur’an seems to skip from event to event and the use of “We” was especially confusing because often I didn’t understand whom “We” entailed. Was it supposed to be “God” in the holy trinity, as Christians believe, or the angles or the prophet and the angles or even the prophet and “God”. The writing style was not easy to follow and I believe it may just be a cultural difference, where I am not use to the style.
Another point of difference is in the way the Qur’an treats and talks about other religions, specifically Jewish and Christian people. Lines like “ They distort the meaning of revealed words and have forgotten some of what they were told to remember: you Prophet will always find treachery in all but a few of them. Overlook this and pardon them: God loves those who do good.” give the impression that there is nothing wrong with believing differently than Muslims do as long as the people do good (5:13). But later in that very chapter the lines “”You who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as allies: they are allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them- God does not guide such wrongdoers-….” Convey a different meaning (5:51). It seems to be the exact opposite of the early lines, and the message seems to flip flop several times throughout the chapter. In Genesis we see the constant punishment of those who believe differently and do not worship “God”.
The overall actions and feelings one gets from these to pieces of literature is also different. In the Qur’an “God” seems to be a more merciful and wise god, or at least more so than in Genesis. In Genesis “God” acts, pardon the cliché, like a little kid with a magnifying glass and an anthill. His kill total must be in the hundreds of thousands, wiping out entire innocent species in the flood just because of one bad species. Now granted this takes place in both the Qur’an and Genesis but in the latter there is a history of mass murder behind the described “God”, such as the tower of Babel and the Cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. The difference between the two is also seen in the way they punish the first man and woman when they partake in the forbidden fruit. The “God” described in Genesis is very harsh and deals out what seems to be an unjust punishment. In the Qur’an on the other hand he seems angry but forgives them for the most part and only banishes them for the garden for the time being.
There are many discrepancies in both of these works; neither is without its flaws. It would be interesting to take a look at the original text translated, as closely as possible, and discern what was added and what is actually the same. Much of what we read in these books today may be additions made by translators in their attempt to preserve the meaning behind each story. Either way both pieces of literature give an insight into how cultures and civilizations were shaped around them.
I generally agree with your comment about the writing style of both texts. While the Bible tends to have a linear story, the Qur'an tends to be all over the place chronologically. Having said that, I think that, once you've pieced together all of the parts of an event from the Qur'an, it tends to be considerably more detailed and understandable than it's Biblical counterpart. I also think that the language in the Qur'an is much easier to understand than the language in the Bible, but this is likely just due to the differences in translation.
DeleteI also noticed the discrepancies regarding the treatment of disbelievers. I don't fully understand the apparent contradictions in the Qur'an, although the impression I got was generally one of respect towards those who practice other religions, especially after what we discussed in class today.
I agree that God seemed to be much more benevolent and forgiving in the Qur'an than the Bible. As some one who was raised in a fairly strong Christian environment and who had never studied Islam before, this was surprising to me. In comparison to the God of the Qur'an, the God of the Bible seems unjustly and excessively violent.
This was also the first time that I have read portions of the “Qur'an” and to me this piece of literature was composed in an attractive way. It was more difficult to understand than Genesis, but I believe this is because “The Bible” has been translated into lay-mans terms to be understood by the masses, while the “Qur'an” that I have read from is from a website that conveys the necessary information in a poetic way. The discomfort that I felt whioe reading the “Qur'an” was because almost all of the information is exactly the same as reading from “The Bible” with minor differences that flesh out some of the mysteries that “The Bible” leaves the reader with.
DeleteThe quotes used from the “Qur'an” in Alec's article can be viewed as disturbing when connecting them to the actions of extremists, but I viewed, “”You who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as allies: they are allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them- God does not guide such wrongdoers-….(5:51),” as these two religions can remain separate from you and you do not have to deal with these people or their ideology if you chose not to. I feel that it is similar to not mentioning politics at a dinner table where someone has dissimilar views to you. You aren't going to be asking them to support you in an argument pertaining to politics, but that doesn't mean you can't live peacefully with them.
I would also love to read a closely translated version of these texts. I feel it would be interesting and informative, but the text will not have the poetry or beauty that it carries in its original language.
I agree that the “We” used in the Qur’an was a bit confusing to read about. In the Bible the reading was mostly in stories while the Qur’an skipped around and repeated a lot. I felt that the language was easier to understand in the Qur’an than in the Bible though. With the repetition it was easy to see what they were talking about and understand the point they were getting across. While in the Bible they went on about the generations of people and how long they lived which had no point to the stories.
DeleteThe Qur’an mentions that you shouldn’t be allies with the Jews and Christians. I think this was mainly because the Qur’an believes that Christians and Jews have misinterpreted the scriptures that the prophets brought down from God. The Qur’an says that those who don’t follow God will get what’s coming to them. So you shouldn’t worry about any disbelievers or other people and only worry about following God like you should and doing good. By doing good, you will get rewarded in the hereafter.
I agree that the God described in the Bible is harsher than the one in the Qur’an. In the Qur’an they emphasize that God is merciful and forgiving. In Genesis, God regrets every making human kind and decides to just kill them all. He creates the flood and kills everything except what Noah brings on the ark. While in the Qur’an it’s Noah who pleads to God to kill all the disbelievers in the Flood. In Genesis, even after the flood, God continues to kill people that he believes should be killed, such as in Sodom and Gomorrah. In both the Bible and the Qur’an God believe people should fear him though and trust in him. Such as when Abraham is willing to sacrifice his own son in order to show his trust in God.
I think that the translations get the basic point across but there could be some changes that are created from the different translators. Both have been translated many times in many languages and it could have potentially changed some of the meaning behind the works.
Nicole Pfister
ReplyDeleteBlog #3: The Qur'an
Who does Allah favor?
Through out the Qur’an, in order to be in Allah’s favor all you had to do is fear him. Anyone who did not show fear or respect would be punished or destroyed. This is shown in the chapter on Noah. The people did not fear Allah. When Noah went to them and told them to fear Allah they refuse to listen to him, "And every time I have called to them, that Thou mightest forgive them, they have (only) thrust their fingers into their ears, covered themselves up with their garments, grown obstinate, and given themselves up to arrogance” (71.7). Due to their actions, Allah told Noah to build an arc and then put a male and female from every species and all who feared him on it. After Noah told Allah how horrible the people were and said, “"O my Lord! Leave not of the Unbelievers, a single one on earth! “ (71.26) Then Allah destroyed all the humans on Earth who didn’t fear him by a giant flood. Therefore, anyone who did not fear Allah was destroyed.
Were women equal to men in the Qur’an?
Women were treated equally to men. “…Men and women; fear Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual rights…” (4.1). In the story of Satan, Eve was treated equally to Adam. They were both given the same rule, they were forbidden to eat from “The Tree of Eternity.” They broke this rule after being deceived by Satan. Then they were given an equal punishment, “…get ye down, both of you-all together, from the Garden…” (20.123) So in the Qur’an unlike the Old Testament, Eve did not take the blame for eating the fruit and Allah didn’t punish all women by making childbirth more painful. Allah punished both Adam and Eve by giving them a mortal life, sending them to Earth, and making them aware of their sexuality. Therefore, at this point of time women were treated equally.
How would you gain Allah’s forgiveness?
As mentioned previously, in order for Allah to favor someone they had to fear and show him respect. But what happens when someone disrespects him and they regret it? All they have to do is ask for forgiveness. Allah unlike God in the Old Testament is very forgiving. In the story of Satan, Allah was extremely angry with Adam and Eve for eating the fruit. However, when they asked for forgiveness, “Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us they mercy, we shall certainly be lost” (7.23) Allah forgave them. So in order to gain Allah’s forgiveness all a person has to do is ask for it.
1) I got the impression that Allah favored anyone who did good deeds not those who feared/respected him. "God loves those who do good.” (5:13) is one of the lines in the early chapters that seems to say that he cares more about your actions than wether you fear him.
Delete2) I agree in Genesis there was much more emphasis on the inequality of man and woman, but in the Qur'ran it seems the exact opposite.
3) Allah does seem much more forgiving than the god portrayed in the Qur'ran, he doesn't deal out the punishments. He is much more forgiving than the Genesis god, rather than condemn Adam and his wife forever he simply banishes them from the garden for the time being. When they die they will return to the garden for eternity.
I do support your claim that Allah does desire fear from the people. But I think Allah more wants loyalty and acts of good in order to obtain his favor. I think that Allah more uses fear to keep people on the track to either earning his favor or his forgivness.
DeleteWhile reading the Qur'an I also noticed how men and women were described more as equals than as male being superior. However I would point out how there is not as much mention of women in the Qur'an as in Genesis.
Allah does forgive those who show him fear and respect. But, also those who show true remorse for their sinnful actions. In the Qur'an when Cain slew Abel, God forgave Cain after he had expressed true and sincere remorse for his actions.
I agree that God wants people to fear him but I also think that the Qur’an portrays God as forgiving and merciful. Many times throughout the Qur’an they say that God is forgiving and merciful. Noah told God to kill all the disbelievers in the Flood. In the Qur’an it says that God forgives all sins and that disbelievers will get what is coming to them in the hereafter. I feel that the God shown in the Bible was harsher than the one in the Qur’an.
DeleteIn the creation story of the Qur’an man and woman are shown equally. They both ate the fruit as opposed to Eve giving the fruit to Adam that is shown in the Bible. They also were both punished and left to wander around earth. But woman are not shown equally throughout the Qur’an. Lut’s wife and Abraham’s wife are both shown to be the ones who question God and are shown as inferior. Woman are more equal in the Qur’an that in the Bible. In the Bible, Eve was created from Adam. While in the Qur’an both man and woman were created at the same time.
I agree that Allah was very forgiving. If asked for forgiveness, it would be granted. . “God forgives all sins. He is truly the Most Forgiving, the Most Merciful.” (pg. 299) If you do good deeds you will be awarded in the hereafter. Any people who don’t believe in Allah cannot be helped and will suffer in Hell. As long as you believe in God and do good deeds you will be allowed into the Garden upon death. In the Qur’an it mentions that you shouldn’t eat hunted animals during a pilgrimage but that God would forgive you for eating it if you were starving. This shows that God has rules but is willing to forgive transgressions if they occur.
Even from just reading the short passages assigned to us on the Qur’an I have noticed several differences between it and the Bible. For starters, the Qur’an is very repetitive. It explains the same things over and over through different surahs while the Bible flows through each chapter like a story book. Also, in the Qur’an Allah seems to have more power than God does in the Bible. For instance, they each took six days to build the Earth but in the Bible God rests and claims the seventh day as a holy day for resting. Allah doesn’t need to rest he shows no weakness being a God unlike the God in the Bible.
ReplyDeleteAs the stories unfold throughout the Qur’an they are not in specific orders so you have to jump around surahs to stay in the same sequence as the Bible chapters are. However, as the stories do unfold, there are many differences shown throughout. First, in the Bible, man is created from dust but in the Qur’an man is created by molten dirt. Then, a woman is made from the rib of the man, Adam, to form Eve, but in the Qur’an Allah makes both sexes. When they eat the forbidden fruit Adam and Eve blame each other in the Bible but in the Qur’an they both repent. God punishes Adam and Eve by giving them death, and painful childbirths, but in the Qur’an Allah forgives Adam and Eve for eating the fruit and makes them go to Earth and leave paradise not suggesting anything about death or sinning or pain. These are just a few examples.
From what I have read so far, God in the Bible seems like a real hard ass and Allah is more gracious and kind. I think Allah is more merciful while God is more power hungry and dictatorial. They both have their own laws but take care of wrongdoings in very different ways it seems.
That's a valid point about God's more merciful temperament in the Qur'an, as compared to his wrathful nature in The Old Testament. What then, does this discrepancy in how God acts mean? What purpose does the Qur'an's more benevolent interpretation of God serve? I think the answer probably lies in how God is portrayed in one of the Abrahamic holy texts we haven't touched upon yet: the New Testament. From the parts of the New Testament I know of, God's disposition here is more similar to that of Allah in the Qur'an; he's more merciful and more benevolent, as demonstrated by the fact that he sends his only son and/or prophet (depending on one's perspective) to die in order to redeem all people. Since both the Old and New Testaments are essentially canonical in the Islamic faith, the two ideas of how God acts needed to be reconciled. That is the purpose of the Old Testament stories being retold in the Qur'an but featuring a much more Magnanimous God: the Qur'an retroactively inserts the New Testament God of mercy in substitution for the Old Testament God of Wrath in order to create a more seamless, cohesive religion.
DeleteThe Qu'ran being repetitive makes a bit of sense. The Qu'ran is shorter than the Old Testament and has been around for less time. There's also of it being memorized by huffaz (something that is considered very admirable) so repetition helps with that. Pragmatically, it being repetitive helps with that.
DeleteThe Qu'ran being admirable re: gender is pretty interesting considering the West's view of Muslims as backwards regarding gender discrimination and paternalistic attitude.
I believe the point of the repetitive phrases is to underline the importance of the message in that phrase. For example at the start of each surah when they praise Allah and call him merciful they really want to stress that point. It is a concept and characteristic of Allah that continually pops up throughout the Qur'ran, which contrasts him to the very vengeful God portrayed in Genesis. The point you bring up with the punishment dealt to Adam and his wife is an example of where they differ. Allah simply dismisses them from the garden for the time being and allows them to return when they die. The God depicted in Genesis on the other hand is much more strict and angry with Adam and his wife and punish them harshly never allowing them to return to the garden and giving specific punishments for Adam, Eve, and the snake.
DeleteThese points you make, showing the differences between the Bible and the Qur'an, are very interesting. As you said, the Qur'an is very repetitive. Maybe this is because the ideas are better implanted in people's minds in this way. It would be much easier to remember each of the surahs since they are so redundant. However, the storybook tactic the Bible takes makes the context much more interesting to read, and would probably draw more people in. These are just some points of view to take when thinking about the differences in writing.
DeleteOne point to make is that in the Bible, at one point it seems that God creates both Adam and Eve at the same time. It is kind of contradictory with this because right after, it switches to the "rib" version we all know so well. I am curious why in the Bible Adam and Eve blame each other and why they repent in the Qur'an. It could be an interesting discussion to have. I think they blame one another out of fear, as they know full well that they should fear God. However, knowing how forgiving God is supposed to be, repenting like they did in the Qur'an could have been a smarter decision. Like you said, Allah seems to be more merciful than the power hungry God of the Bible. That could account for the difference in reactions given by Adam and Eve upon eating the fruit. Perhaps if they had repented in the Bible, God being a "hard ass" might still have reacted the same way.
I agree with the statement that Allah is more merciful than God in the Bible. Another example that shows how Allah shows more mercy is in the surah on Noah. In the bible God regrets his decision on creating humans after seeing how evil they can be. On the other hand Allah doesn’t regret creating humans. Noah is the one who resents humans and goes to Allah and tells him that the people who do not fear him should be destroyed. Therefore, Allah is more understanding and shows more mercy than God in the Bible.
DeleteThe Qur’an and the Bible are two different telling’s of the same story. Both tell the story of the creation of man and man’s fall. By reading both of these books it really helps us to gain an understanding of different cultures and at certain points makes us question them as well. Both of these books contain contradictions, and there are even more contradictions with the followers actions. The three Abrahamic religions are closely related to each other and with further reading of these texts it perplexes me that these religions fight so much. It seems that religion disputes on the small differences instead of thriving on their similarities. In Surah 5:5 it seems to say that the “people of the book” or Jews are okay for Muslims to marry for they share many things in common but in other parts of the text they are not friendly to the Jewish people.
ReplyDeleteThe Gods of these two different books are very similar. They both require obedience and take offense to any worship that is not for them. The Qur’an surah 39 line 29 states “a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a man belonging entirely to one master: are those two equal in comparison? Praise be to Allah. But most of them have no knowledge” This is further proof that Allah does not respect any who try to worship anything except him. This is very strange because when you think of God you would usually not attribute such human emotions like jealousy to them. They also both claim to reward their true followers and punish those who do not follow them.
Many religions prohibit certain foods and maintain that it was their god who told them not to consume certain animals. For Muslims and Jews it is pork, dead animals, and for Jews they also cannot eat shellfish. Now some people take this as literally god telling them not to eat these foods, but with further thinking people can understand why they should not eat such foods. Pigs are filthy animals and if they are not cooked right, it is very likely that one will get sick from it, especially with the cooking methods of early Muslims and Jews. The obvious reason for not eating dead animals is that they have already started to decompose and very serious illness can come from consuming them. And for shellfish it could be that people did not prepare them right or even that some people had an allergic reaction to them. All of these could have been interpreted as a sign from god to not eat these foods.
I agree that these three Abrahamic religions do have many similarities and people should focus on that more than the differences. There is too much violence among differences in religious beliefs and it needs to be stopped. People need to believe in what they believe in, but also respect what others believe in as well.
DeleteBy reading about the Bible and learning how God confronts problems and his attitude towards humans, and comparing it to the Qur’an and how Allah confronts the same problems you can see that these God’s are similar in how they do things. They try to act godly with super powers but in some instances like you have brought up they act very humanly. They don’t like people who confront them in what they are doing or how they act but they praise people who trust in their judgments. They want everyone to have faith in them but not have to show why they should trust their God. Most people want reassurance that they are doing the correct thing and what is by law.
Some people do go overboard about the different kinds of foods that are not allowed to eat in their specific religions. They should just have the common knowledge that these foods will be harmful to the body and that their God wants to just help them be safe and make right choices. However, some people feel that this is a law passed down by their God and they should never eat such foods. Since the food is pork, dead animals, and shellfish it is understandable why people shouldn’t eat them raw. People should never want to eat dead animal just because of the danger of what it would do to their body. Just because God says not to eat it there are some circumstances that it would be okay, like if it is well cooked, or a survival instinct.
DeleteYou mention God having jealous emotions - I feel that this is a mistake, because the concept of God is supposed to be beyond such, as you say it, "human" pettiness. The line that you mention about many partners and a single master seems to be more attacking the idea of Pagan religion: many gods make it so that its easy to have fighting between them, and having a "single master" means that you can be devoted much more strongly to that one being. This is a commonality amongst all the Abrahamic religions, as you correctly noted, because it is fundamental to the concept of monotheism that there is one supreme deity, and that all others are inferior. The Quran simply brings in the notion of infighting amongst those smaller gods, as a reason to abandon it in what was the primarily pagan (at least during the advent of Islam) Near and Middle East.
The food restrictions you mention also have a purpose beyond staying healthy and avoidant of dangerous foods: it serves as a tribal marker, so that people are more readily able to congregate together without having to ask each passerby if they were in the right book club. These symbolic actions were also a way of continuing the act of worshipping away from idols and shrines and into homes, where the practice became an integral part of worshipping their God. It is similar in a respect to the wearing of yarmulkes for Judaism, or the crucifix, or any other religious symbol.
The religions experience infighting simply because they are so similar - the minute differences between groups are often the most infuriating. This leads to competition between religions, and it makes inquisitory dialogue much easier when you are operating on a common set of principles. In other words, it is a lot harder to convert a Buddhist to Islam than it is a Jew, or a Christian, simply because there are so many different core concepts and world views. Without these differences, they would be stand-alone claims to divinity, which have a lot more room to wither and die, rather than religions based on already widely accepted stories and lessons.
I feel similarly to you when reading the Qur'an and the Bible. I think they are very similar. I would be interested, and I don't know if Prof. Akman has mentioned this, but when in comparison each one of these books was supposedly written. It seems to me like any other book or series of books. Obviously, the old testament was probably written first. So the Jewish had the Torah... Now what? Next the Christians say, let's make a sequal and write the New Testament. This keeps it popular, but the diehard old testament fans are going to stick with the old testament. Finally the Muslims come in and say, "they've got it all wrong." From their understanding they make a few revisions and change a few stories to make it sound like they believe it should. This catches on too for some people, but again, some people are Team Old Testament and some people are Team Old and New Testament and then some like the different stories. There's looking at all three from a strictly literal sense.
DeleteAmanda Thomas
ReplyDeleteHumn 220
Akman
Blog #3
What is the meaning of Satan in the words of The Qur’an?
Going into the class today I never read The Qur’an so was not sure what to expect of it. After reading the reading I learned that even though it is a different practicing religion then my own, it has very many similar aspects taught such as the aspects of Satan in day to day life. Reading the story of creation and Satan in The Qur’an can have many different ties to The Bible and other religions as well as other important events for the religion. According to The Qur’an Satan is seen a lot more in the creation of earth and of mankind. Allah is said to have created earth and mankind in a similar way as God did in the bible. Man is created out of clay and Satan is made from fire. I see this to symbolize that man is made from the earth as clay is a form a ground material found on earth and is abundant everywhere making man arise everywhere under the rule of Allah according to The Qur’an. Satan being fire can show this as being the devil as the devil is often seen with fire and heat being he wants to stir things up and disobey what Allah is trying to say to his followers. When they ate from the tree of eternity Allah arose and told them that he said to not listen to Satan and that he will try and make you do things that would disobey me. But by sinning against Allah, Satan does not see a punishment in The Qur’an as one would see in The Bible. Satan me continue to do this as he does not see a reward in people following him in fact all he sees is Allah telling people they did wrong but not suffering from it in any way. Allah also is seen telling future children to not let Satan play any role in their life as he may have with their parents. Satan is seen as an important figure in that he is part of the natural life of human but also as a figure who is trying to tell people the other side of Allah and to disobey him. Maybe by doing this he wants people to know the true effect of Allah and the full power of him and what it truly means to worship him. Satan can also be seen as a rebel against Allah in that he does not want to mankind. This can be seen as he does not think of himself as less than of Allah himself and does not feel that mankind should be out in front of him in the eyes of Allah. Comparing this to The Bible one can see a big difference. Satan is never really affirmed in The Bible as he is in The Qur’an. Satan can only be imagined as certain forms or what he is trying to tell mankind on his views. Some of this is true when it comes to The Qur’an but Satan identifies himself and makes something’s a bit clearer as to what he is trying to tell mankind. It can be seen as he wants to put his input on things and how he thinks Allah should run his earth according to him.
I agree with you in your statements about Satan. Satan seems to be the villain in the three Abrahamic religions. He causes many issues for humans because he believes they are not superior. I believe there is significance in the Qu'ran stating that Satan is made of fire and humans from clay because you can use fire to heat clay and form things from it. Much like how Satan influences people into doing things. Allah warns mankind of Satan’s intentions but Satan seems to always be able to influence people. This brings up the question whether Satan is right about mankind being inferior. I believe that Satan ultimately represents man’s temptation. It’s a lot easier to ask for forgiveness for any act when you can claim a malevolent supernatural being was influencing you. I also agree with you that the bible does not reference Satan in it, and that people just assume that the snake is the Satan because he is the tempter in the story.
DeleteHow does the Quran differ from the Bible in its portrayal of evil in the world?
ReplyDeleteIs the Quran more egalitarian from a feminist viewpoint?
How does man’s position change from the time of the Hebrew Scripture to that of the Quran?
The subject of the origin of evil in the world is a common theme throughout all of the world’s religions - Abrahamic and otherwise. The biggest cause of evil within the Hebrew Scriptures come primarily from acts of God: just through different avenues of action. When Satan acts out against Job the power that was relinquished to Satan came at God’s discretion (Job 1:12). Even at that point, God lays the ultimate line of not causing mortal harm to Job himself, retaining the judgment of life and death within his domain. It acts as one of the constant reminders of God’s supremacy over all forces good and evil found throughout what is commonly called the Old Testament. In the Quran, many great evils come from the openly defiant figure also known as Satan, who is in fact a creature called a Jinn; who are made of fire - a point of contention between God and his demands of subservience towards man (Heights 12). Satan is directly attributed with propagating evil in a way somewhat out of God’s purview, tempting man into sinning.
All throughout Genesis, the book outlining the creation of man and all else, the Hebrew Scriptures constantly reaffirms the ideal that women should be subservient to their male superiors, right from the very instance of their creation (Genesis 2:18-23). Women are blamed for the very original sin, as made famous with the talking serpent episode in Genesis, and are cursed with the pains of childbirth and an eternity of being lesser to man (Genesis 3). This is not as emphasised within the Quran - both man and woman is described of eating of the forbidden fruit, and suffering their fall from grace as a combined experience of humanity. There are not as many instances of women being singled out for being simple minded, or contrary to godliness as a matter of inherent nature. Its far from being legitimately feminist in scope - no conservative religion is - but it is a little better than the open derision and belittlement found in Judaism and Christianity.
A commonality between the Quran and the Hebrew Scripture is that God made man from the Earth - and that God granted man life. This, however, is where the religions diverge in ideals. Christianity places humanity on a plane distinctly below heavently beings - as found in Job, the beings that live with God outside of time and space are meant to be consultatory with God over the fate of mankind. However, the Quran distinctly shows that other heavenly beings are meant to be servants of man, to act as conduits to God (Heights 11). The Quran and Islam also fails to mention that humanity is made in God’s image - a stark departure from the earlier sects of Abrahamic faith, further removing God from the worldly and mortal. It could be said that, within the context of the Old Testament and the Quran, that Islam places Humanity both on a higher level than Hebrew scriptures while also being further away from where God stands.
Yes evil is seen throughout both the Bible and the Qur'an but in different forms and different meanings. The causes of evil do come from acts of God but also from how humans respond and interpret what they believe in. The cause evil just as well as God himself does. Women are blamed for the sin and do not fight back for their punishment while men sometimes know of their punishment and refuse to accept the punishment and that can be a reason for them blaming women in the Bible. The Qur'an does not single women out and instead makes them have the same importance in the religion as man. Christians believe women have a lower power and certain roles according to the bible as in the Qur'an sets man and women equal and whoever does something sinful will pay whether it is man or women. The religions really never diverge in beliefs. They have the same ideas and concepts but just practice them in a different way. The Qur'an says that man should not be made in Gods image that he is different than humans and cannot be seen as all the same. The Bible wants man equal but if man is equal then why is blame put on women when a man sins? The Qur'an can be seen as having a more important role of how people follow and how the act and respond. The Bible is more a set of rules and what can be done and what cannot be done and what happens if someone disobeys.
DeleteMark Sledziewski
ReplyDeleteHow is Noah portrayed in each book?
Comparing the Qur’an and the Bible was very interesting. In the Bible, we see that God is punishing all of mankind for being bad, and not believing. God plans the destruction of the world, and tells Noah to build an ark so he and his family can survive. In the Qur’an, God sends Noah to the people to warn them to change their ways, lest they are subjected to God’s punishment. When Noah does this, he finds them unwilling. He angrily asks God “Lord, bring nothing but destruction down on the evil doers.” (71:24) God complies with this, and sends the evildoers to Hell.
Is the God in the Qur’an more like the God that everyone thinks of?
In Genesis, the God that I met was not one I had met in Sunday school. I was always taught that he was merciful and that his love knows no bounds. But here in the first few pages of the Bible, he wipes out the planet, and desecrates two cities. He is quick and harsh to judge Eve, and Adam. But in the Qur’an, we see this merciful, judicious God. His understanding toward the first man and woman, even if he was angry at first, shows how much he loves the human race, even when they sin. Although the Flood took place in both, in the Qur’an, he is asked by his faithful servant to do this for him; even though it means the loss of his wife and son. But in the Bible, he does it to teach a lesson, and saves only Noah’s family because he was faithful.
What are the food restrictions found in the Qur’an?
In the Qur’an, we find that there is a restriction on the food they are allowed to consume. “You are forbidden to eat carrion; blood; pig’s meat … any animal strangled, or victim of a violent blow or a fall, or gored or savaged by a beast of prey….” (5:3) We find that these foods are consistently found in restrictions of diets by religion, as they are very similar to that of the Jews, and to the Christians. The reason for these seem to be more of an issue of health, as there are many diseases that can be caught from dead animals not properly prepared.
I can only agree with you, Mark - the God portrayed in the old Hebrew Scriptures is a cruel and pernicious being indeed. There can only be one explanation for the incongruity in preconceived notions and the scriptural reality: cultural indoctrination with the express goal of otherizing Islam and its adherents. With knowledge of recent (read: post 9/11/2001) American history regarding Islam, this is anything but surprising. In fact, it is much closer to horribly depressing.
DeleteI have a feeling that, if children in sunday school were encouraged to read the Bible, the Torah, and the Quran they would come to a similar conclusion as yourself: God is way nicer in the Quran. I am comfortable with that statement with just Noah in mind; there does not seem to be anything compassionate or eternally good about unilaterally deciding to kill nearly everyone and everything on earth, for the sin of not following a god they never really hear from. Noah in the Quran is totally absolved of what would be tremendous guilt for not being able to save people other than his family - the only option available in the Hebrew Bible. This is a common theme throughout the book, where God takes out scores of innocent people for similar transgressions.
The dietary restrictions, I believe, are a product of the sanitary conditions (or more likely lack thereof) that were prevalent throughout antiquity. It makes sense to tell adherents of a religion to have distinctive semi-tribal characteristics that also serve to protect from dangerous food sources, like garbage-eating pigs or shellfish from dirty and untreated water. The same can be said for ritual slaughter of animals, and the preparation of their meat.
I also found it very interesting that one single character could have such contrasting roles between the bible and the qur'an. In the bible Noah is concerned with obeying god and saving his loved ones and his people from the coming destruction. On the other hand, in the qur'an, Noah gets easily frustrated with his people and decides that he does not care if they are saved. He continues to tell god that he thinks god should destroy them all due to their lack of believing in what he says.
DeleteI thought the same thing about the god that is described between the bible and the qur'an. The god in the bible seems very quick to destroy everything. He does things out of spite or just to show he can. The god in the Qur'an is more understanding and appears to be all knowing and merciful but does not feel the need to show off all that he can do. I agree that the god in the quran is that god that I have learned about my whole life.
What you wrote is completely true in my mind. In the Bible God is more of a ruthless dictator but in the Qur’an he is more considerate and gracious. During Noah’s time God is furious with how the humans are behaving and decides to destroy everything but in the Qur’an he tells Noah to make the people change their ways and because they don’t listen, then, Allah steps in and send them all to hell.
DeleteI was confirmed at Lutheran Christian church and while I went through Sunday school and confirmation class, I too felt the same way about God. That he should forgive us for our sins and help us and have enough love for the entire world and the people in it. However, reading Genesis, Exodus, and Job I have realized this is completely not true and he acts like a dictator. However, in the Qur’an he is more sincere and merciful. The God from the Islamic religion is more like the god I grew up knowing not the one from the Christian religion.
I think that these foods were forbidden because of health risks as well and Allah was just trying to keep his people who believed in him healthier and have better lives. You can eat these substances out of starvation but they do have drastic health risks, especially the dead animals.
When reading the Qur'an I noticed quite a few differences between the Qur'an and the Bible. Although they both have the same basic stories, the way that things happen are different. In the Qur'an, God is depicted as very fair and just at first. The narrative gives God a more understanding look. But as you read further the Qur'an goes on to discuss how to punish non-believers. If it is believed that someone is trying to go against the word of God and spread "corruption" then they can be punished by death as well as loss of a hand or foot, or even be banished. My question is why does the Qur'an refer to God as just and Merciful if non-believers are punished by death or amputation? Shouldn't a just and merciful god be tolerant of different views and only do good for the people who believe?
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that was different was that in the Bible it does not specify how god created man, it only says that man was created then woman was created from mans rib. In the Qur'an, it was said that man was made from clay and mud and then his counter-part was made. Also in the Qur'an, man was created before the animals. The Bible says that man was created in Gods image, but the Qur'an says that man was molded and shaped out of clay and doesn't specify if God was modeling man from a certain image. Another question I thought about was why did this change between the two stories? Is the God in the Qur'an not of human form? Maybe the god in the Qur'an did not want his servants to look equal to him.
Lastly, I found it interesting that the Qur'an says that intoxicants and gambling are examples of how satan entices people into doing bad things. I'm curious as to how this idea came about because it is still carried on today. The Bible never mentioned these things specifically, it only eluded to the idea that satan was behind temptation. Free will plays a bigger role in what people choose to do with their free time whether it be intoxicating themselves with drugs or alcohol or gambling.
Free will seems to me to be a tricky concept in both the Old Testament and the Qur'an. How much do we actually control our own actions, especially our negative actions? Sometimes in The Old Testament when people do bad, it's of their own volition and there seems to be no one or nothing tempting them, such as Cain when he slays Abel. However, other times it's the influence of a malevolent presence that makes people do wrong, such as the Serpent's temptation of Eve to eat the fruit. Other times still it's God himself who makes people do bad things, such as when he hardens the heart of the Pharaoh so that he will not let the Israelites go. The Qur'an, partly serving the purpose of streamlining the Abrahamic tradition and removing inconsistencies, seems to posit Iblis/Satan as the ultimate deceiver of human beings who makes them do evil. Yet it also states that God does not will all people to believe the same religion, even though those who do not believe in the final truth, Islam, will be sent to hell, so there are still some inconsistencies.
DeleteI think God is merciful in the Qur’an, in comparison to the bible, where God kills thousands. But you also have to consider the time and situation of these texts. When Satan is so tempting, what would hold people faithful to their God? The threat of punishment, or the loss of paradise, keeps followers in line. Without God punishing, there would be none of the followings. But on the other side, God is also just and understanding. It entices its followers to believe in God, but at the same time, scares them from disobeying.
DeleteI also think that free will is a touchy subject. When you think of free will, you think out of being able to make your own choices, regardless of everything else. In biblical context, to me it seems like God isn't allowed to interfere in your thoughts. The whole concept is to be able to choose right from wrong on your own accord. Where we see that they ban drinking and gambling, I think it more as a lifestyle tip from God, as we all know the effects of alcoholism, and the threat of gambling in ancient time, you could lose quite a bit of your livelihood.
How is salvation different in the Bible and Qur'an?
ReplyDeleteIn the Bible salvation is through faith of God foremost. This is seen in many of the stories like Moses. Moses believed in Gods word and was saved from the flood. In the Qur'an, salvation comes from a very different deed. In the Qur'an salvation is through sincerity and works. This is seen in (3:135) "And those who, when they commit an immorality or wrong themselves [by transgression], remember Allah and seek forgiveness for their sins - and who can forgive sins except Allah ? - and [who] do not persist in what they have done while they know."
Why is there a different view about prophesies in the two holy
books?
In the Bible there are many prophesies Jesus makes a few and he is a prophesy in Isaiah 53. "Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand." It is interesting that while the Bible has many prophesies the Qur'an hasn't thus far had any. Why is this? In the Qur'an, is there no one who speaks for God?
Why is there such a different perception about human beings in both the books?
In the Qur'an men and women are judged for their actions, they are not sinful from birth and are not inherently evil but in the Bible men and women are sinners from birth. Those are completely opposite opinions. It almost seems like Christians are meant to live in perpetual pessimism and Muslims live optimistically. Why would two Abrahamic religions be created on such completely different essential values.
Denis Jekić
DeleteI enjoy the fact that you brought up this idea that Christians are almost meant to live in perpetual pessimism and Muslims in optimism. I, too, noticed that there was something strangely more optimistic about the Qur'an than the Bible. The Qur'an was more general and much more sensitive and equal in my opinion. The most noticeable positive differences are the fact that Adam and Eve are treated equally and share together their blame and prosperity. They are both at fault for eating the forbidden fruit, they are both created out of the same clay. Where as the Bible punishes them rather harshly. This does not mean that the Qur'an itself doesn't have downfalls. When compared to the Bible, you can see immediately the dominance placed on men over women when it is said that a woman was created from the rib bone of Adam. This means that she is both a part of him but also created because of him and from him. She almost loses her own self because she is not created equally. But clearly in the end whether either is more optimistic or pessimistic, it would seem that negative qualities love to stick out more so than positive.
Your first paragraph makes an interesting point about the Quran's emphasis on sincerity and doing good deeds to achieve salvation. We have only read limited excerpts from the BIble and the Quran, but I find that the Quran does outline daily virtues more thoroughly than the Bible. Faith and loyalty to God are clearly very important in all the Abrahamic religions but thus far, the passages in the Quran seem to address other important traits that human beings should have.
DeleteIn regards to your second paragraph, I believe the angel Gabriel is the answer to your question. In class we mentioned how the Quran was originally recited to Mohammed by Gabriel. Mohammed then passed on the teachings of the Quran, or the words of God, to other people. It may not be the same as what you were explaining about Jesus and his prophesies, but according to Islamic tradition, Gabriel recited the words of God to Mohammed so they he could spread God's messages. This difference between the religions could be due to the role of the angels and the jinns in Islam. It could be there role to directly speak for God; God is the almighty and human beings may not have the capacity to speak the words of God.
Colin Moore
ReplyDeleteQuestions about the Qur’an
How is the God in the Qur’an different from the God in the Bible?
It is fairly well known that the God in the Qur’an, who shall now on be referred to as Allah, and the God in the Bible have been said to have done some things different from each other. They also seemed to be portrayed differently in each book. The main difference between Allah and the Christian God seems to be that Allah is a more forgiving God. The prime example of this in the Qur’an is when Allah finds out that Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit from the Tree of Immortality. This was shown in the Qur’an, in The Heights 7:23-24, “‘"Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?"’ They said: ‘"Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If Thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost."’ (Allah) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."” (The Heights, 7:23-24.) This quote shows that Allah gave Adam and Eve mercy even though they directly disobeyed him. In the Bible, God showed them no mercy, making Eve suffer through the pain of childbirth and causing original sin, and also by forcing them out of the Garden of Eden. Allah said that they would only be exiled for a while, and maybe in time or after death they would be allowed back in. Another difference between Allah and the Christian God is that Allah did not rest on the 7th day after he created the universe. Allah said that a God would not get weary like a human being would. Another important difference between Allah and the Christian God is that Allah did not create man in his image. Allah said that it is not possible for a human to look like a supreme eternal being. There are some key differences between the ways God is portrayed in the Muslim world and how God is portrayed in the Christian world.
Comments and Concerns
Deleteby: Erika Schoene
It is an important distinction that the Muslim Allah is separated by more distance from humanity than the Christian God. The fact remains that the zeitgeist of these Abrahamic religions are the same. Both Gods give orders, and both punish. If a God punishes a human and the human replies "oh merciful lord" does that truly make a God merciful. Mercy is only perceived, but if both Gods punish and reward according to their own will, is either more forgiving or more merciful. And is there really a need for God to ever feel unforgiving towards a creature he made. If my dog had an accident on the carpet, I don't need to forgive him but train him better. Why try to forgive the animals innate nature.
Colin Moore Pt.2
ReplyDeleteWho are the Jinn and is it possible that Satan is actually part of the Jinn?
The Jinn are the third type of being in the Qur’an. The other two are angels and human beings. The Jinn are a third type of being that cannot be seen by humans, yet they can see humans. Jinn can be evil, good, or neutral in the ways they decide to act. The bigger question however is whether or not Satan, the supposed fallen angel was really and angel, or was part of the Jinn. I would say that personally, I believe that Satan was a part of the Jinn. I believe this because it would not make since that beings like angels would have the ability to sin against God. It does not seem likely that angels would have enough freewill to be able to rebel. Satan blatantly sinned when he refused to bow down before the newly made-of-clay Adam. Another reason why I believe Satan may be part of the Jinn because both the Jinn and Satan are made out of fire. This is said in the Rocky Tract when Muhammad said, “We created man from sounding clay, from mud molded into shape; And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.” (The Rocky Tract, 15:26-27.) This quote shows that both Jinn and Satan were made out fire. It may be possible that Satan is a part of the Jinn since he was able to rebel against God and show some amount of freewill.
What kind of decisions has Allah made and what kind of things has he shown humans?
At one point in the Qur’an God addressed people of different religions such as Christians and Jews. One quote in the Qur’an that shows what Allah said was, “The Jews and Christians say, ‘We are the children of God and His beloved ones.’ Say, ‘Then why does He punish you for your sins? You are merely human beings, part of His creation: He forgives whoever He will and punishes whoever He will. Control of the heavens and earth and all that is between them belongs to Him: all journeys lead to Him” (The Feast, 5:18.) This is an attempt by Allah to prove to Jews and Christians that following Him is a better idea because he is seemingly more forgiving. Allah also made the decision to make the Jews wander the desert with Moses for forty years because there were nonbelievers among Moses that began to not listen to him. Allah decided that nonbelievers deserve to suffer and wander aimlessly around the desert. Finally, Allah showed the son of Adam, most likely Cain, that he should bury dead bodies even if he murdered them. He should also pray for them. Allah has shown humans the right course to go through life.
If Satan is part of the Jinn then how can he play a role of both good and evil as well as neutral in the lives of humans. Satan is not know for being good and the Jinn can be seen in the Qur'an as quiet angels. They are a form of humans I believe created by God to play a more neutral part not the part of Satan or the part of angels but to take neither side and have a better understanding of what is going on in the religion. Satan has rebelled but angels cannot so what makes Jinn able to rebel and what is the importance of having a third being on earth? Some may say it is just a neutral entity that does not take the sides of anyone. He may be made of fire but fire does not always mean evil. The Qur'an wants to show a more merciful God and understanding his people and this could be why he wants more followers and does not punish people because he to is human and makes mistakes and can better understand what is going on.
DeleteI think Satan is a fallen angel. I say this because in the mycourses pdf of the story of Satan in the Qur'an, in 7:11, and in 15:31, and in every other variation, we see this.-"...Then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrated; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who bow down." this to me says that he is an angel. Although that is nothing to say that Satan didn't become a Jinn. There are works I found where as soon as Satan/Iblis refused to bow down, he became a Jinn. It defiantly brings up an interesting question though, because angles are supposed to be able to sin. So is Satan a Jinn? Possibly. But he defiantly starts off as an angel.
DeleteHow does the Quran deal with Christians and Jews?
ReplyDeleteThe Abrahamic religions all share similar stories and characters but the three religions diverged on separate paths because of different interpretations of scriptures. The Quran unambiguously states that Islam is the one true faith and following Allah is the only path. It acknowledges the existence of Jesus Christ but to characterize him as the “Messiah, son of Mary” (The Feast, pg. 75) is to defy God. Christians are also said to have defied God by allowing each other to do wrong and ally themselves with other disbelievers. “How terrible is what their souls have stored up for them! God is angry with them and they will remain tormented.” (The Feast, pg. 75). The Quran also says to not make an ally with a Jew or Christian because this makes you a non-believer. According to the Quran, Allah is seen as the one and only God, and all disbelievers seem to be doomed to eternal suffering. Surahs 109 and 112 concisely summarize that Allah is the one true God.
How does Satan in Job compare to Satan in the Islamic tradition?
Because Satan is not explicitly mentioned in Genesis, the story of Job can be used to compare Satan in Christian tradition against Satan in the Islamic tradition. An obvious similarity between the two is that Satan’s character is “evil” and that he is intended to cause mischief. In Job, Satan challenges Job’s loyalty to God by stripping away everything he holds dear to him. In the Quran, Satan pledges to do wrong to human beings, “O my lord, because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong.” (Surah 15, verse 39). In both instances, Satan tries to puncture the loyalty that human beings have for God. However, in Job, we only get a limited view of Satan and his overarching goals. In the Quran, because Satan doesn’t bow down to Adam, we get the basis for why Satan chose his path of putting human beings in the wrong.
How does the structure of the Quran compare to the structure of the Bible when we read the two texts as literature?
When we read the Bible as literature, it makes sense as a story because it is written in chronological order. It is clear to follow family lineages and progression of events. On the other hand, the Quran is not chronological order. In my opinion, at least from the assigned texts we read, I found it more difficult to read the Quran as literature. It seemed to be a very religious text, often reiterating the same ideas over and over. Mainly, that there is only one right path and one almighty God to worship. That being said, the Quran did make more sense of Genesis to me because it explained why the devil wished to tempt Adam and Eve. I am left wondering what the snake in Genesis was and what its true intention was.
I feel that God in the Qur'an dealt with Jews in Christians in a seemingly harsh way. Obviously in the Qur'an there is only one God, Allah, and that no one else should worship any other God. There are some examples where Allah can seem unforgiving to non believers. However, I feel like Allah wanted to give Jews and Christians a reason to switch to Islam. An example of this is on Pg. 70 in The Feast, where he almost mocks Jews and Christians by asking them why their God punishes them for sins, even though they are a part of His creation.
DeleteThe comparison of Satan in Job was interesting. In both versions of Job it is really Satan's duty to cause havoc on Job and to undermine God's authority. At least in the Qur'an we are able to understand why Satan has chosen to disobey God, which like you said is because Satan would not bow down to Adam.
The structure of the Qur'an is very different from any other type of book I have ever read. Even though it has shares many of the same stories as the Bible, they are presented differently through the surahs. I kind of like how the Qur'an is broken up because it seems like each chapter has a certain meaning that is trying to be put across.
I think it is very important to distinguish that the Qur’an was not intended to be literature, where the Bible clearly is. It is even called The Good Book. The Bible has had centuries to be developed, edited and revised. Details in the Bible have been added, removed, rearranged and expanded to suit the need of whatever branch of Christianity is going to be using it, or whatever the political climate of the time is. The Bible even has 2 versions – the Old and New primarily because many thought the Old was too violent and didn’t work for the culture of the time. The Bible is being rewritten all the time. While the Qur’an may suffer in English because of translation issues I believe having its primary source be from an oral tradition is very important. It must be recited perfectly, with no deviation. In Muslim culture expert retellers are stars and can become famous. In Christianity the preachers who become rich and famous are those that can choose certain texts and passages and tailor it to their audiences.
DeleteThe Qur’an and Genesis; how are they similar?
ReplyDeleteWithout any background knowledge of The Qur’an, it was surprising how many similarities there were between the two. Essentially, both pieces of literature tell the same story of creation and the beginning. Given the many different circumstances and situations between both texts, most likely due to the differences in translation, both works share similar events as well as characters. One of the first similarities I came across was the concept of the forbidden tree. Although they have different names (Tree of Knowledge and Tree of Eternity), the general theory is the same; do whatever you please, but don’t eat the fruit from the tree.
What about Satan?
Nowhere in Genesis is there mention of Satan. In Genesis, there is mention, however, of a serpent; which we can only assume resembles Satan. In The Qur’an, Satan plays a large role in the story. Satan, made of fire, believes he is better and greater than Allah, or God, because Allah is made of clay.
In The Qur’an, Satan is the one who entices Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. In The Bible, Eve is the one who entices Adam to eat the fruit. Many researchers can argue that “evil” stems from women due to the influence women seem to have on bad things. I do not necessarily believe this to be true; I advocate more on the side that women can be more persuasive, influential and more likely to stand their ground than men in this story, not so much evil. I found it interesting how women were portrayed in this story. It was shocking to me how much power and influence they had on the story.
Writing style and structure?
I felt as though The Qur’an was easier to read than The Bible. The Bible was much easier to follow because it was in chronological order, but I felt as though the writing was easier to understand in The Qur’an. I believe the reason is because, having read The Bible first, I had background knowledge of the stories and how they are supposed to be read, in terms of the order it is written.
You make an interesting point about the role of women in Genesis. The concept of the "original sin" has given women a negative connotation not only in Genesis but also in the entire BIble. However, I am not sure that Eve was intended to be seen as an influential and powerful character in Genesis. I have not read the Bible in its entirety but, from what I have gathered, men seem to play the most prominent roles in the stories. Again, I do not know everything about the Bible but its content leads me to believe that it resembles a patriarchal society. Everyone can have their own interpretation about the contents of the Bible but I personally believe that Eve was meant to be portrayed negatively in Genesis. Yes, she was influential in the story, but her role was disobeying God. The Bible explicitly states that defying God has severe consequences. Therefore, I think that the sexist interpretation about Eve and women in Genesis is more likely.
DeleteI also found the writing in the Quran easier to understand. From the excerpts we had, it was relatively clear what the writings were trying to express. I mentioned in my own blog response that I also felt the Quran felt less like a story than the Bible. In the Bible, everything is in chronological order and it is easy to follow. However, some of the language and family lineages can be confusing at times. I think that the Quran is clearly written but, for some reason, I felt it more difficult to read it solely as literature.
I agree with Kelsey Davidson’s response. I did not have any background knowledge of the Qur’an either so reading the Bible first helped me understand the Qur’an surah better. I found that the Bible was easier to read and follow than the Qur’an. Some lines in the Qur’an can be easily confused and misinterpreted. So through different translations the surah can have different meanings. I was surprised of the similarities and differences between God and Allah. I was especially surprised of how forgiving and merciful Allah was compared to God.
DeleteIslam as an equalizer of women?
ReplyDeleteI found it fascinating that in the creation story of the Qur'an Adam takes on just as much blame as Eve does, not burdening her with the sole responsibility. In the Qur'an it is said “Our Lord we have wronged our own souls and if You forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your mercy, we shall certainly be lost.” The emphasis here is on the "we." In Genesis in the Bible, Adam is quick to place blame on Eve and that she tempted him to eat the fruit of the tree. In a culture widely regarded for their supposed mistreatment of women, I found it shocking to compare the two versions. It goes to show you that preconceived notions gleaned through media, popular belief, and propaganda should not be trusted.
Noah and his Ark...how do they differ?
In the Bible Noah is thought of by God as one of his true followers and someone that God found worthy of walking beside him in contrast to the dismay He felt when looking at what the rest of humanity had become. God himself went to Noah and told him to ready himself and his family and to gather two of each kind of creature for the new world. In this story Noah's family is spared and the important thing to note is that God comes to him and warns him.
In Islam, Noah speaks praise unto God to the people and tries to warn them that if they do not revere Allah and worship Him as the one true God then they would face certain punishment. Allah is a supreme being that never directly speaks to Noah but that Noah was inspired by Him. He also does not spare Noah's family and says that his wife is evil and "false to their husbands."
I too, found it interesting how women are essentially equalized in the Qur'an. I noticed that the emphasis was on "we" and not so much one person. I also found it interesting how a culture so strongly religious and involved in their faith, could almost go against what is in their Holy Book and treat women the way they do. I agree that the assumption that all women are treated poorly in the Islam culture is a terrible misconception based on media and propaganda and that nothing that is broadcasted for the public can be taken seriously or believed so easily without further investigation.
DeleteThe story of Noah and his Ark, for me, demonstrates very strongly, how much power and strength lies in God. I believe that the Old Testament in the Bible is all about demonstrating the power of God, not so much the beauty and divine power. In the Qur'an, Allah never warned Noah about the troubles coming his way. In this respect, it can be argued that Allah in the Qur'an is not as good or divine as the God in the Bible.
I agree with your responses and they made me think about different aspects of both stories that I had never thought of before.
I also found it interesting how the qur'an treats men and women equally when the fruit is eaten in the garden of eden. I would not have assumed that Adam would assume blame with Eve, probably due to preconceived notions of how women are treated in the islamic culture.
DeleteThe differences in the story of Noah in the bible and qur'an also grabbed my attention. In the bible Noah does what he can and appears to truly care for people. In the qur'an Noah seems to have lost hope for humanity due to the fact that they did not listen to him. He proceeds to play devil's advocate and tells god to destroy everyone. This is a huge contrast between one character.
I feel that many people believe that women were mistreated in the Qur'an simply because of how women are treated in some places in the Middle East. I was also surprised when Adam and Eve took equal blame for eating the forbidden fruit. I feel that this is a very important distinction from the Bible. However, the Qur’an is not completely free from sexism but also the way some people choose to act should not be indicative of the religion they follow.
DeleteThe differences in the story of Noah also intrigued me. The fact that Noah's family is saved in the Bible and not in the Qur’an is an interesting and rather important distinction about non-believers. It shows that non-believers will not find salvation with Allah in the afterlife. What I find most interesting is that the same stories are in both religious texts yet there are some key differences between them that should be acknowledged.
The Qur’an vs. The Bible
ReplyDeleteHow does the creation of mankind differ in the Qur’an than it does in the Bible?
The way in which mankind is created in the Qur’an is significantly different than in the bible. For one instance, in the Bible god created Adam in his own image. While in the Qur’an god created mankind from clay. One question that I had after reading the bible was that since mankind is hardly perfect, and can be fallible; does that mean God is also, since man was created in god’s image? While in the Qur’an man was created from clay and was not made in god’s image, therefore I can give greater consideration to the possibility that, in the Qur’an, god is infallible.
How is the status of women different in the Qur’an than in the Bible?
While reading portions of the Qur’an, I noticed how the role of women was fairly different than what I had read in the Bible. In the Bible God made women out of one of Adam’s ribs, while in the Qur’an God made women clay along with man. To me creating man and women at the same time, instead of one before the other, equalizes them. Furthermore, in the Qur’an, when Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit; Adam does not blame Eve as he does in the Bible. From what I have read so far, the Qur’an puts men and women on a more equal status, both with god and each other, than does the Bible.
What is Satan’s role in the Qur’an?
In the Qur’an Satan is a being made from fire. When God orders the angels to prostrate themselves for man Satan, Iblis, refuses on the basis that a being, made of fire, such as he should not be forced to bow down before one made of clay and is sent to the underworld. After God has granted life to Man, Satan approaches Adam and seduces him into eating the Forbidden Fruit leading to their banishment from the Garden. In this portion I see Satan as a figure that is too proud to bow down to any he considers to be inferior to him. To me this is why Satan has such profound dislike for Adam and Eve, enough to have them banished from the Garden of Eden.
I also found the differences in the creation stories very interesting. I am uncertain of the significance of man being made from clay, but it definitely has a very different effect than man being created in God's image. I don't think the Bible was trying to say that God is fallible however. Rather, I understood the creation of Adam in God's image to mean God's physical image rather than his personality or intrinsic traits.
DeleteI was also surprised by the Qur'an's depiction of women. The creation of Adam and Eve as equals, the fact that Adam did not blame Eve, and God's equal blame on the two, were quite surprising to me. As someone whose understanding of Islam (until recently) came almost entirely from the news media, which likes to repeatedly comment on the poor state of women in some Islamic countries, I expected women in the Qur'an to be treated with less regard than they are in the Bible. Although I'm not sure that is possible, since women are portrayed so negatively in the Bible.
I was very interested in the story of Satan in the Qur'an. I was totally unaware of the Jinn race in the Qur'an. Aside from their different origins, I thought that the role of Satan in both texts was very similar, assuming that the serpent in Genesis is in fact Satan. Both seem determined to seduce mankind to do evil. Interestingly, while this is explained in the Qur'an through a dialogue between God and Iblis, Satan's reasoning is left vague in the Bible.
How do the depictions God in the Bible and the Qur’an differ?
ReplyDeleteThere are many distinguishing features when comparing the two depictions of God in the Bible and the Qur’an. Both depictions of God want their followers to fear God and his power over them. Although the depiction of God in the Qur’an may seem more unforgiving due to the many times Allah has demanded fear in his powers, he was depicted as a more forgiving God. When comparing the depictions of the story of Cain and Abel, the Bible concludes the story with Cain being cursed, having to wander the Earth and have fruitless crops. God does not allow for Cain to recognize his sins, but in the Qur’an, Allah does not punish Cain. He allows Cain to come to realize that he has sinned, and after asking for forgiveness, Allah does not punish Cain. Another example of Allah being depicted as more forgiving is when speaking of humans who believe in other gods. Although both depictions of God would not suggest followers to believe in other gods, Allah is more lenient towards the non-believers. He states, “…whoever follows the guidance does so for his own benefit; whoever strays away from it does so at his own peril. You are not in charge of them.” (39:41) This is very different from the God in the Bible, who states that, “whoever sacrifices to any god, save the Lord only, shall be utterly destroyed.” (Ex. 22.20) Even with Adam and Eve, the events of the Qur’an are more forgiving than the events in the Bible. In the Qur’an, Adam and Eve ask for forgiveness, and they are given just that because they know the crime they have committed, but in the Bible, all of woman are cursed with the pain of childbirth, and also being born in considered the first sin.
Why does the God in the Qur’an seem to ask for more fear in Him than the God in the Bible?
These two depictions of God are very different, and although at first glace, Allah in the Qur’an is seen as a more fearsome God compared to the God in the Bible. He demands for fear in the Lord much more than the God in the Bible, but in my opinion, this is a form of tough love. Allah demands fear because he knows that if one fears Him, they will regret their sins, and they will also know of the crime they have committed. By knowing and regretting, these sinners will repent, and they will become better humans. And even though Allah demands more fear, he is more forgiving than the God in the Bible. In the many examples shown, Allah is depicted as a much less spiteful and vengeful God. He forgives the people who understand their misdoings, and he allows humans to learn their lessons. The God in the Bible instead does not try to teach the humans lessons, but rather he spites them when they do wrong. He curses humans who commit sins, and He demands for the destruction of the people who do not believe in only the Lord.
I noticed that the Biblical God is more obsessed with obedience, killing Lot's wife for looking back at the destruction of her home, rather than leaving her in the city to be destroyed. Your opinion that Allah is more forgiving is uncommon, but well supported. You could further support this point by adding that Satan takes a more active and explicit role in leading humankind astray in the Quran, suggesting further that Allah understands that those who sin are not entirely to blame.
DeleteI can see the point you are trying to make and see how you came to the conclusion that the God of the Qur'an desires fear more than the God of the bible. There are some factors that I would like to point out, expressing a different form of interpretation. one is that in the passage from the Qur'an that you quoted, regarding how those who didn't follow the scriptures did so at their own peril, I would like to point out that the passage does not specifically mention punishment. What the passage does is mention that whoever does not follow the scripture "does so at their own peril", which I interpret as meaning if you do not follow the scripture you take the risk of falling to sin. So it does not necessarily mean that if you do not follow the scripure you will earn god's wrath, or something else along that line.
DeleteI do agree with you when you speak about the God of the Qur'an being more forgiving than the god of the bible. When you speak of why Allah demands fear more than the god of the bible, I would like to add some other interpretations for consideration. For instance I think that Allah uses fear so that not only will sinners repent, but so that others will have a greater desire to not sin. For the most part I understand your argument and agree with what you have said. My desire here was to point out some possibilities that might not have been considered.
Blog 3
ReplyDeleteBefore reading the Qur’an, where was my head?
The Qur’an is definitely a book I approached with an open mind. At this point in my life, I am figuring out for myself what I believe in, so learning about all sorts of religions has been a sort of hobby for me. I have been approaching each religious literature I come across with the mindset that the next one could be the one that calls to me, and makes me believe. This is the mindset that I used when reading the Qur’an. I wanted to find something in it that I could believe in. This causes me to be a little bit biased in my reading, as all I am looking for is something I can believe. As a born and raised Roman Catholic, I already know much about the God spoken of in Genesis and the Bible. This also caused difficulty in being unbiased and critical in my reading.
Compare God within both texts.
In my opinion, Allah, the God of the Qur’an, seemed all about punishment and destruction. This I find interesting, as God was like that in the Bible, too. He was claimed to be forgiving, but if his worshippers for one second questioned him or his existence, he would punish them. This does not sound forgiving to me. In fact, the God in each piece of literature seems almost immature and young. When he does not have his way, he has a tantrum and destroys his creations. Then he practically starts over, using what is left. The best example of this is the story of Noah and his ark. When the people did not listen, God had Noah build an ark and put certain creatures on it. Then he destroyed the rest of the creatures who wouldn’t listen. If someone were to say God was a human like us, he would have to be a child who is used to having his way. At least, that is what some of his decisions and punishments look like to me.
It was good for you to come into reading the Qur'an with an open mind. When thinking about the demographics of the students of Geneseo, I came into this class thinking most other students would have a Christian mindset, and would not be accepting of certain other, more foreign ideas.
DeleteI agree with what you are saying in the most part. Both depictions of God seem to demand fear, and when humans seem to challenge God's power, He kills them. But although both Gods do act in this manner, I feel that God needs to assert his power in order to control what man does to the Earth. He needs to show no mercy sometimes if He wants to be able to teach man the values that the Bible and the Qur'an preach. These values are what each religion believes is the "correct" way to live life, and in order to have people internalize these values, God must demonstrate his power to stop people otherwise.
Comments and Concerns
Deleteby: Erika Schoene
God in both books does tend to be of a think first ask questions later sort. That is why I and you see him as such an immature character. Neither asks questions of those he punishes and unfortunately he asks for everything his followers can give him. He wants to be their entire world. The very concept of which is strange because he makes a world for humans to live on. Why would he want to split a humans focus. If humans are supposed to be less intelligent than God, how can he expect a person to be different then all the stimulus that their experience makes them. God is the least tangible of these. It makes him seem foolish to require so much.
I liked what you said about having an open mind when starting to read an kind of religious book like The Qur'an. It's a great idea because it helps to avoid any biased views or feelings. I did agree with what you said about God being big with punishment in both The Bible and The Qur'an. Also, how both God in The Bible and Allah in The Qur'an both want to seem so forgiving yet if you make just the simplest mistake, they're right after you with punishment. I also think they are acting childish and immature. If they're so high and mighty, why do they act so juvenile? Why not act like the higher beings that they are? Also, excellent reference example using Noah. I completely agree with you there.
DeleteI like the fact that you came to the "Qur'an" with an open mind; I tried to do this as well, but the similar stories reminded me of the "Bible" and brought each biblical story to mind. This allowed comparing them to be easier for me, but it also meant that the things I remembered might actually be from the "Bible" or possibly just information I have learned throughout my childhood.
DeleteI also thought that both God and Allah were destructive and highly immature. This is always interesting to read how violent and angry, a merciful and glorious god can be. I do feel that Allah was more merciful and understanding then the God of the "Old Testament." The references to Noah is perfect to show the destruction that these gods caused.
I also thought that names were used fairly sparingly compared to "The Old Testament" and that the "Qur'an" concentrated more on reinforcing and sending messages to their readers.
I too came with an open mind when reading the Qur'an. I was also raised as Roman Catholic and I sometimes find it hard to be unbiased. It is difficult for me to analyze these works as pieces of literature and think of them critically. It is definitely different approaching The Bible as literature.
DeleteI agree with your idea about Allah in The Qur'an being mostly about punishing. I feel as though in both books, the main message the reader is supposed to get from all this is the fact that God is extremely powerful and nothing else is supposed to compare to that. One way to demonstrate this is by creating situations for God to react to, utilizing his power. I agree with your statement of an immature God. That is certainly a different way of looking at the situation.
Why do we see the Devil as we do?
ReplyDelete“Western” society sees the Devil, or Satan, as an evil supernatural force that must be fought against, a struggle we must overcome. This view results in games like Diablo and in movies like Devil, where instead of leading people astray from their path of righteousness, the Devil is either killing or needs to be killed. Of the passages we've read so far, there is little mention of Satan, and no more examples of Satan killing people than God (far fewer examples, actually, but that’s another subject). In the Quran, Satan seemed more like a mischievous con-man than the ultimate supernatural evil he is today. Satan, Hebrew for “the opposer,” didn't do much opposing.
People seem to prefer to define themselves not by what they are, but by what they are not. American politics today is a two party system not because there are only two points of view, but because it allows for discourse to devolve into ad hominem attacks. The 2000’s were defined by fear of and hostility toward terrorists/Muslims. For decades after World War II American society pivoted around not being Communist and beating the Russians at everything. Part of the rationale behind the Nazi party’s policies was that Germany had been taken by foreigners and needed to be taken back. From this history it is safe to say that Americans, if not humans in general, are the opposers, not Satan.
As globalism and understanding of other cultures is growing, we’re running out of scary people to fear. We've conquered the world, in that respect, resulting in a need for an adversary that is not of this world. Satan appears as an adversary when we lack living beings to feel persecuted by. In 1984 George Orwell made sure to include to include that Oceania is in a constant state of war, because having something to oppose makes us proud. In Lord of the Flies the boys invented a threat because it felt unnatural not to perceive a struggle with something (they came from a country fighting a war, after all). Interestingly enough, this struggle caused them to change their civilized and “moral” ways to more savage and “immoral” ways.
Satan was portrayed as trying to lead people astray from the path of righteousness in a time where people already had enough struggles to concern themselves with. They could feel accomplished simply by believing they hadn't done anything wrong, and if they did sin, they could put some of the blame on the fact that a Biblical entity was pressuring them. Today we have different needs: in thrillers we need something powerful that can’t be defeated through natural or technological means, and in violent video games we need something that everyone can hate without objection. Disturbing as it may seem, we've gotten so good at creating devils for ourselves we can even recreate ones we've already made.
This is such an intriguing breakdown of the way Satan is seen. The fact that the devil has killed much less that God has, yet the devil is seen as the one entity humans need to avoid and dispose of. Seeing Satan as a mere invention of the people is a very interesting point of view. It is true, in my opinion, that humans tend to invent adversaries. I know that I myself create arguments sometimes, simply for the sake of arguing, or to have something to distract myself from other things. This is something that is true of many people, and could be the cause of the creation of an entity like the devil. In doing this so often, people tend to get used to having someone to be against. Once this adversary goes away, people have to find another to replace it. In your example of Lord of the Flies, the boys are so used to being surrounded by war at home, that, as you said, they created a threat to fight. Satan is also a great excuse for doing wrong. I wouldn't say that the devil is an acceptable excuse, but it is used often. You make many fantastic points about the way humans view and create the devil.
DeleteI agree with what you are saying here Grant. Your question is one that, at first glance, is one we would not think too much about. We have been brought up in a society that believes that the Devil is defined by the ultimate evil, the one that is trying to destroy us all. Being a non-religious person myself, I still know and understand this definition for the Devil as the default one, and questioning this definition is key to understanding how our society is what it is now. Your point of us needing something to oppose is important in this understanding of how we've come to define the Devil, it gives us a reason to appoint such a skewed definition to a character most Americans have read about. By changing the definition of the Devil, it allows people who are both religious and non-religious to put the ultimate label of evil on to those who we are opposing.
DeleteWho was more terrifying, Qur'an God or the Old Testament God?
ReplyDeleteWhile this may seem insane, it seemed to me that the Qur'an God was more vengeful than the Old Testament God. A large part of this opinion definitely stems from the repetition of the words "Hellfire" and "Hereafter" it seemed that Qur'an God really distilled the threat of eternal damnation into Mohammed's teachings. The lack of narrative also played a part in making Qur'an God seem a bit more nonsensical than Old Testament God. In the Old Testament, there was always a small (sometimes microscopic) bit of justification of God's smiting, but the Qur'an God would do it to just about anyone. Being reminded that he is a merciful God only scared me a little bit more, he seemed like an old Italian gangster who loved you, but had no issue whacking you. I seem to always be doing these religious readings through the lens of finding out what would control me more, because that is what I believed was the main objective through religion. Qur'an God seemed more controlling and ready to damn me to Hellfire, so I would have to say he was the most controlling and terrifying.
What are the stances on murder?
The Old Testament has plenty of murder in it, in fact the near annihilation of life on Earth is in it. But the writings clearly stated that the murdering of another man by a man is wrong, through the ten commandments and the story of Cain and Abel. In the sura Table Spread, the issue of murder is addressed. The same general notion is laid out, but with the caveat that murder is allowed if it is in retribution or "they are spreading corruption through the land". Reading the second part of the sentence sent chills through me. How general of a statement, it could be construed in any way! Perhaps it could have been translated differently, but the ability for this sentence to justify any killings is very scary. This is a very delicate issue due to the conflict with radical Muslim groups, but this line was genuinely bone chilling separated from that issue.
Were some of the stories just revised new editions?
In the Story of Satan in the Qur'an, the different interpretations of Genesis seem too good to be true. The authors went back to the original story, and realized that the serpent could probably be the devil, to round out the whole Devil vs. God theme in religion. The story of creation with Iblis was a lot more captivating then the fall of Adam and Eve without it, so once again it seemed that things were spiced up for that sake. Everything fit to perfectly for it to not have been a well thought out revision to the story of creation. But it also could have been divine inspiration, I would not like to fully discredit any beliefs.
While your assessment that Allah is more terrifying than the Biblical God is supported by the skeptics' annotated bible online, I don't think it is fair to bring up radical Muslim groups. Radicals of any religion are motivated by hate, and use whatever belief system they can to justify it.
DeleteAs for the references to Hell as "fire" in the Quran, Jesus refers to Hell as a place with lakes of brimstone and gnashing of teeth, and he is considered one of the more forgiving characters in Christianity. Putting the fear of Hell into the followers is understandable, as they believe it to be a place for eternal damnation and torment. http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/bible_quran.html
I agree with these comments, the differences between the two portrayals of the Lord is surprising. The Qur'an is confusing when one ayat is focused on how Allah is a merciful and forgiving god, which is contrasted when the next ayat is focused on Allah condemning people to burn. The stances on important things like the the Lord's will, murder, and the accuracy of old and new versions of the same stories seem to be confusing between Genesis and the Qur'an. God and his actions seem extreme in both the Old Testament and the Qur'an, both seem to be willing to destroy when angered.
DeleteAustin Stone
ReplyDeleteHumanities 1
Dr. Akman
Week 3
What is the general policy towards Jews, Christians, and other religious beliefs in the Qur’an? That is how are these faiths referred to, and how are followers of the Qur’an instructed to interact with these peoples?
Contrary to what many people with no experience with the Qur’an might think, this text does not provide a clear picture of how these other world religions should be viewed. In fact, I found it to be quite contradictory on several occasions and I was left wondering if this ambiguity may have actually been intentional. My confusion centered on the concept of the People of the Book, an idea I picked up on that made much more sense after an in-class explanation. These people are defined as Jews and Christians, religions that share many of the same narratives in their central religious text and therefore are tolerated. However, the Qur’an doesn’t always seem to portray that. Take Surah 5 for example. Starting at Ayah 51 the Qur’an indicates that Believers should not be “friends” with Jews nor Christians, and that they are “wrongdoers.” These groups are later collectively referred to as infidels. However, starting at Ayah 65, it states that converts from these religions will be accepted and pardoned; it goes on to say that “…those who follow the Jewish Faith. Sabaeans and Christians…shall have nothing to fear or regret.” This is a clear contradiction that I could not explain, and this is only one instance of many where it is seen.
How may the translation of the Qur’an, as well as the original Arabic in which it is written, have an effect on our critical interpretation of the text? The cultural interpretation?
Without having any experience with the Qur’an, my initial reaction to the language and phrasing used in this translation was that it is very plain and straightforward. It seems as if the text is trying to be as terse as possible. However, this does not mean that it is dry or lacking, as I did come across several passages that I found to be emotive. This brief language may lead readers to think the text is overly simple when it really has meaning masked by the translation. Surah 112 is a great example of this as it is simple but also meaningful, and the message portrayed in those four Ayahs is crucial for the Islamic faith. Also, the plain nature of the text could have cultural consequences. Think of the New Testament’s Commandment against murder, “Thou shalt not kill.” The Qur’an actually goes into more detail than the Bible on this subject (5.32). If we, as a society, followed this verse instead of the Bible, issues such as capital punishment and abortion would be much less of a philosophical discussion; it would be grounded in a fundamental text.
Is God in the Qur’an different from the Old Testament God we encountered last week? If so, in what way?
The God of the Qur’an and the God of the Old Testament are two completely different figures, even though they are the same entity. In the Qur’an, and the New Testament for that matter, God is a forgiving God. He is ready to forgive sins against Him and others, and is willing to grant an afterlife in paradise for those whom he favors. This, then, brings up the main difference between the New Testament and the Qur’an, the lack of Original Sin and therefore Jesus as a savior. The Old Testament God, on the other hand, is a vengeful being that strikes out on His creation whenever they are in the wrong. The Old Testament God wants nothing to do with salvation.
Regarding your first thought, I feel very similar. There was a lot of ambiguity and contradictions regarding the followers of other Abrahamic religions. Jesus, Moses, and all of those great chosen guys are clearly cited and respected by the author of the Qur'an, but there are some verses that are a bit more "snippy" with the other religions. Even if any Muslims truly believed that everything Jews and Christians believed were wrong, they couldn't because it would clearly falsify their religion simultaneously. On another note, Professor Akman's point of the issues at the time of the writing of the Qur'an definitely make some of the contradictory verses more understandable.
DeleteIn a way I enjoyed the direct and succinct language of the Qur'an. If there was a rule being set out, it was clearly instructed, and not have to be interpreted out of a story of rapists being annihilated in their town by balls of fire. In regards to the terseness, I can't really say anything to the flow of speaking the Qur'an, but I can definitely see the lack of beauty in this English version compared to an Arabic one. Since Muslims cannot depict Mohammed (or really any person if I remember correctly), the work that went into calligraphy of these passages is magnificent, so some of the appeal of the Qur'an is lost there.
While the God of the Qur'an may be more peaceful, the writing of the book is more unsettling. It is easy to not put yourself in the situations that the wrathful Old Testament God puts the humans of that time through, as compared to breaking a simple tenant of Islam and being reminded of the "Hellfire" and terrible "Hereafter" you'll spend eternity screaming in. That constant reminder in the text made Qur'an God come off as bipolar and ready to flip his mercy any minute, but perhaps repenting to him afterwards would change that fate.
Robert Lawton
ReplyDeleteIn preparing for this week’s readings I perused a few different translations of the text. The Oxford edition that was suggested is not, from what I gathered, the ‘definitive’ version. In fact I could not find an English translation that was considered 100%, absolutely accurate. In the Kindle marketplace I read reviews of many of the translations, and read samples from 4 or 5 versions. The translations, and their attached accuracy was in great debate. Just from a cursory reading of a few sura’s the intent of the translator became clear, and the differences were extreme. One version of the text had three separate translations listed side by side to compare the differences. My question is how can there be so many versions, and does this not lead to the current state of confusion regarding the Qu’ran in the western world?
I saw many of the same sentiments in a number of the Qu’ran translations. The translation I chose to read (by Dr. Muhammed Mushin Khan says in the Second Surah) “if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur’aan) to our Slave (Muhammed peace be upon him), then produce a surah the like thereof… but if you do not, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire..”. :Lines like this are repeated throughout, in a translation by a Muslim (for Peace Vision, ironically). It is hard to read this line and think it does anything other than set apart distinct differences, the like of which could only mean violence and eternal separation. I find it specifically interesting that in the translation Fire is constantly capitalized, which to me appears to make direct reference to the Jinn Ibis who is seen as Satan, and in the Qu’ran is made from fire. This is not the only translation to have similar sentiments. The Oxford version does seem to promote more the peaceful aspects, at least in the translations we have read, but the violence and absolutism still exists. The Koran seems to depend very much on the translation, especially since there is no “official” written verse.
The Bible does not seem to have the same problems as the Qu’Ran, superficially at least. Even though the Bible has been in the dominant English language for centuries, and has even been standardized (The ESV) there are many different versions and focuses of the Bible. Slight differences in translations from whatever the original source was has led to holy wars for years, even if now we seem to be relatively at peace with Christianity. Within the last year I attended a baptism at a southern Baptist fundamental church, where much of the sermon was directly from the(ir) Bible and definitively anti-semitic. The Bible, though has centuries on the Qu’ran as far as inundation into culture and editions. We are still, as a world, learning to read and accept the Qu’ran. Translations will always be debated, especially with the knowledge of the 4 students of Mohammed being so disparate. Perhaps Islam needs the same time that Christianity has had to develop before we really know how to translate the words of Mohammed.
On a side note I found this piece of beauty in Yahoo Answers:
ReplyDeleteWhy do muslims hate / make fun of other religions great figures when islam says prophets are sent all over?
well according to islam, prophets were sent worldover. right ?
also its wrong to insult prophets . right?
• 2 months ago
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
The very existence of Islam is an insult to all religions and all people. How many times are non-Muslims insulted in the Quran - called evil, the worst of creatures, compared to dogs, etc? How many times is violence against other people advocated in the Quran? Too many! Islam insults Jesus. Islam insults the female prophets of God by denying them, so they don't respect or follow all prophets.
Islam is not even a religion. It's a deen. There's a difference.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20121219222119AANHJEr
It is amazing that even within this small forum, with a seemingly innocuous question there can be so many DEFINITIVE answers. People that seem willing to fight, and apparently unwilling to listen. From reading just a few chosen surahs I can see how easily the book can be turned to any ideal if one chooses the right passages or translation, but is this really any different from the Bible?
It is interesting that you bring up the idea of translation disparities, as it is something I considered in my blog response as well. I chose not to focus on this idea as much in post, but it was definitely something I had in the back of my mind the whole time I was reading. Similar to you I found what appear to be different perspectives on the same information, at times even appearing as a third text, similar but different, than both the Bible and Qur’an. Also, the paper version I have of the Qur’an is different from the Oxford Edition used in class. I borrowed it from a friend who bought it for a Humanities class with a different professor. The Surahs have been close but, in my opinion, simplified. This is hard to describe without an example, but when compared to the Oxford Edition and the online postings it is almost as if it has been stripped down to its base meanings. Worth noting, as well, is that my translation is entitled The Koran with no mention of the other spelling. As you said, these differences absolutely contribute to confusion when reading this text and comparing it to others. As well as confusion, however, I feel the translational differences lead to general misinterpretation. This may be more obvious in the case of a Humanities class where mostly everyone is new to the Qur’an, but consider that idea in a room full of people who base their religious beliefs on this text. While Christianity has different interpretations (think Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, etc.), at least it’s the same text. I think this idea, at least in part, makes it much harder for non-muslims or those unfamiliar with Islamic traditions to understand this text/religion.
DeleteCharles Caplan
ReplyDeleteHow does the Qur’an advise its followers to treat the followers of other types of Abrahamic religions such as Jews and Christians?
There is conflicting and contradictory thoughts on the followers of other Abrahamic traditions in the Qur’an, Jews and Christians are referred to as “People of the Book” meaning that they follow teachings of the Lord known as Allah in Arabic. There seems to be two different ways that the Qur’an views these people, one is that they are following some of Allah’s teaching and if they live a just life then “on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” (5:69), implying that their belief in the Lord and righteous lifestyle is enough for them to be considered fine in the context of Islam. Although, the Qur’an also tells these people that there is a new book and that they need to obey its teachings to be on the correct path (5:16). Other parts of this text go as far as saying that the teaching or “covenants” made with Jews and Christians are now either not being practiced or not as important as the new teachings of Islam(5:12-5:14). These passages seem to be saying that Jews and Christians have fallen into a unjust or even evil pattern by either ignoring the teachings they received from Allah or by forgetting their duty to the lord, and one ayat goes so far as to ominously warn that “And soon Allah will show them what it is they have done” (5:14).
What significant differences can be seen between the scriptures of Genesis in the Old Testament and the stories of the Qur’an?
Here there is a huge difference between the two texts, despite the fact that they are supposedly telling the same story. Adam and Eve in the Garden is an extremely important part of any Abrahamic religion because it explains how mankind committed the transgression against the Lord. In the Qur’an the being known as Satan or a heavenly spirit known as Iblis (7:11) tempted the first man and woman to eat of the forbidden tree (7:20). In this story Satan is driven by his contempt for Adam as a lesser being (7:12) and wishes to show Allah this by tempting him away from the righteous path (7:17). This is a tale of jealousy on the part of Iblis, this jealousy causes conflict between Satan and Allah resulting in an evil spirit that wants to tempt man and create his downfall. This is in contrast to Genesis where the story is not of a spiteful spirit, but rather it is of man and woman being tempted by a crafty serpent to eat of the forbidden tree. Here the difference is most defined, the Qur’an portrays man as being tricked by a jealous and spiteful spirit who wants to prove that Adam is an inferior being, whereas, Genesis shows man tricked by a crafty serpent who seems to have no motive or feelings towards God or man. The Genesis story seems to show that there naturally evil in the world and that man must resist it in order to avoid the wrath of God. In contrast, the Qur’an story seems to portray Satan as responsible for evil, man is tempted by the deeds of an angry spirit and led away from the path of righteousness.
What is the significance of the way the text is structured in The Qur’an and what does this mean for the interpretation of Islam?
In the Qur’an Allah is portrayed not only extremely powerful and omnipotent but also forgiving and merciful to his creations. The way the text is structured in the Qur’an tells much about how Allah should be regarded by the followers of Islam, one passage gives an example of this
“1. Say: He is Allah, the One;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.” (112:1-112:4).
This surah shows that Allah is regarded as the one true god and that no being in creation can rival his power and authority in Islam. The use of words that describe Allah as having these kinds of powers and qualities give the followers of Islam a definite path to what they believe will be the way to appease the lord is to follow these teachings.
I think the major contradictions are coming in translations, and usage of the words Christian or Jew. It says in the Qur’an that on the day of judgement Muslims, Jews and Christians alike who take refuge in Allah shall find their way to heaven. (2:4). In all translations the text makes a distinction between those that are truly followers of Allah from those who merely pretend. Those that are on the “Right Path” will be allowed into heaven, while those who engage in misdeeds and sin Allah will turn against. There is a great discrepancy here between Islam and Christianity. In Christian rules one must accept not just God, especially in the new testament, but Jesus as the son of god. If we look at the Qu’Ran as the new, new testament then perhaps this take sit even a step farther in promoting unity and a universal respect. I think when one thing becomes nonsensical, especially something as ingrained as the Bible people will naturally look for an explanation and a revision. The Bible is clearly not the work it originally was, or being read fully as intended. Islam undoubtedly falls into much the same fate with extremists of both anti-Christian and anti-Muslim beliefs. Nowhere in the Qu’ran (or Bible) have I found a passage that reads it is okay to take some of the teachings into practice and others not and still be all good in the end. Islam at least seems to make a place and variable okay for someone to call themselves Jewish or Christian and still reach the promised land as long as their life has been good and at the end they believe in God, whether he is called Allah, Yahweh or God. Now, polytheists, atheists or Buddhists… well those people are screwed.
DeleteYou are right, in comparing the two books and explaining their differences. They both intend to tell the same story, but do it in a different way. What needs to be considering when reading them is the time in which they were written. The Old Testament is an older text than the Qu'ran is, so the Qu'ran modernized the stories for its time. The Qu'ran goes into more detail with the stories while the Old Testament is mush more simpler. You are also right in the contradictory writing in the Qu'ran about its perceptions on other Abrahamic religions such as Christianity and Judaism. The book writes as if that "the people of the book" should not respect the other religions, and it could even be said that it promotes to do harm to them. I believe this is taken a bit out of context, and that the true message is more to just leave the other religions be and stick to you're own beliefs as a follower of the Qu'ran. You are also right in saying that the Qu'ran is very straight forward on what path to follow as a reader. Allah is the one and almighty, and to please him and to not question him will lead you to all good things. The Qu'ran does a good job at showing people what is right and wrong while under the rule of Allah.
DeleteKelly Gilbert
ReplyDeleteHUMN 220
Professor B. Akmen
2/5/13
The Bible vs. The Qur’an
After reading parts of The Qur’an, I felt as though it was very complex and hard to understand, making it much less interesting than The Bible. I feel that The Bible uses much simpler terms and puts concepts in clearer meanings than the Qur’an. The Qur’an is also not put in chronological order. The events are somewhat jumbled around, unlike in The Bible where they are put in specific order from when they occurred.
I personally did not like how events and characters were different in The Qur’an as compared to in The Bible. I feel that important things like the story of Adam and Eve and the creature known as Satan and events that occurred involving them should not be changed. They should stay consistent in every book that they’re included in. I realize some people may find it interesting that over time, these characters and their stories slightly change in books, I find it unethical. Our past is important and people shouldn’t go writing books that infringe on what really happened. It’s almost the same idea as someone just changing the laws that congress enacts. That is wrong and it should not happen. This is basically the same as people changing the ideas of what happened in The Bible and putting them in The Qur’an. Whether it’s a different belief or not, those are huge events that occurred in our past and they should stay the way they were originally put down onto paper.
After reading parts of both The Bible and The Qur’an, I’ve found that The Bible is much more interesting and easier to understand. I do not recommend The Qur’an to someone who would like to learn about the creation of the Earth with Adam and Eve and the idea of Satan, although Satan was much more typical in The Qur’an than in The Bible because he wasn’t referred to as a serpent. This may be a racist view, but I feel that only Christians should read and understand The Bible as their sacred text, and only the Muslims should consider The Qur'an their sacred and holy text. Being a Christian myself, I would much rather read The Bible than The Qur'an, but that's just my opinion, of course.